Job. Did God really do him justice?

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falcon22

Registered Senior Member
Since this is a religion section, I thought it'd be more interesting to bring in a Christian topic rather than a thread in which athiests and religious people bash each other. So here it is.

In the bible, Jobs gets tested by God since he allows Satan to inflict all kind of misery on him. First, Satan kills off Job's cows and his possessions. Job stands firm and believes God has a reason behind all this. Then goes his children and eventually his wife leaves him. At this point, Jobs is dismayed at how horrible life can be but still has strong, strong faith in God. God laughs and boasts to Satan how faithful his servant JObs is.

But the devil is not done yet and asks permission from God to inflict actual physical illness on Jobs. God agrees and boasts that no matter what, Jobs will remain a very faithful servant. So Satan inflicts series of painful illnesses on JObs, ones that made JObs lie in bed for weeks and weeks and weeks with intense pain and suffering each second. He could hardly eat; hell, he could hardly breathe. But that wasn't all. His friends visited him with religious standards, saying to him that it was his sinful thoughts and acts that caused this pain. His friends blamed everything on JObs.

In the end, Jobs, though filled with doubt, kept his infestimal faith in God. When he was about to lose all his faith, God appeared in a form of winds and voice and preached to Jobs about his mightiness, about he created all thigns in the world. When Jobs nodded, God gave him mre property, more kids, and a hotter wife, replacing JObs everything and giving him more than ever before.


Okay so.... My question is.... was that a fair deal? What if JObs really really loved his wife and no one else could possibly replace her? Then God just took away the love of his life? And what of his children? Children can't merely be replaced that way. Just imagine if you had two sons and they died and after getting back from illness, you get smarter, better looking kids. It doesn't matter if they're smarter or whatever because the original kids that you had were YOUR kids, that you loved from the bottom of your heart!!!

Also, God never answers any of JOb's questions of doubt when he appears to him. He only preaches how he created the birds, the universe, and how his power to create is so mighty that Jobs should not doubt him. IT's a long ass sermon too. Would you, if you had gone through what Job did, be satisfied with that answer?

So yeah, let's talk about Job. Was it right of God to go ahead with such a test to begin with, just to brag to Satan about how faithful his servant is? We're talking a human life here and God merely tested that life as a plaything. Is that right? What is your view on this "historical" occurence?
 
First, were is proof of Gods existence?
Second, were is proof of devils/Satans existence?
Thirds, were is proof this story is not a total Bull+(waste)?
 
dragon, I just want a discussion about this story. Therefore, I'm assuming that all those three things you mentioned (God, Satan, the story) are all true.
 
I'm a maltheist (as someone in this site has proposed) and I'm sure you too know a lot about biblical references and stories and whatnot. So I was just thinking it'd be a good idea to discuss a biblical topic. If you don't want to, then don't. I just wanted a thread that didn't have atheists and theists fighting so much. Well, they probably will in the assumption that theists will support God's deal with JOb and atheists will see God was just a motherfucker when it came to Job.
 
falcon22 said:
I'm a maltheist (as someone in this site has proposed) and I'm sure you too know a lot about biblical references and stories and whatnot. So I was just thinking it'd be a good idea to discuss a biblical topic. If you don't want to, then don't. I just wanted a thread that didn't have atheists and theists fighting so much. Well, they probably will in the assumption that theists will support God's deal with JOb and atheists will see God was just a motherfucker when it came to Job.
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what is it that you want to discuss? What questions do you have for an entity such as I am?
 
sigh.... doesn't the title of this thread say it all? Was God's deal with Job right? Was it wrong? Why? That's what I want to discuss. Not only with your entity, but with everyone.
 
If this was anyone apart from God this would called a sick joke!

The point of this sermon is so that christian can all say to each other when things get bad, 'this si nothing compared to job'. Its a Psychology trick that all, its so people can always no matter how hard things are always make an upward social comparision.
 
O wait I remember!!! The whole christian thing ideology is life is suffering and not a happy place, thats one of the reason i chose atheism.
 
falcon22 said:
So yeah, let's talk about Job. Was it right of God to go ahead with such a test to begin with, just to brag to Satan about how faithful his servant is? We're talking a human life here and God merely tested that life as a plaything. Is that right? What is your view on this "historical" occurence?
Click to expand...

The story of Job is one of most blatant hypocricies of the bible. And although a complete myth, no caring, loving god would stoop so low to test ones faith, even though that god is allegedly omniscient, or would stoop so low as to pander to his archrival; Satan.

Clearly, a manmade fable with little or no forethought.
 
(Q) said:
The story of Job is one of most blatant hypocricies of the bible. And although a complete myth, no caring, loving god would stoop so low to test ones faith, even though that god is allegedly omniscient, or would stoop so low as to pander to his archrival; Satan.

Clearly, a manmade fable with little or no forethought.
Click to expand...

Sure he is omniscient, in a 2000+ year old hebrew translation. Which translates to he can only do, and know what is in a possible, and uncontradicting manor to himself. Alot of Athiests get confused on this translation because of some texts entered into debates trying to debunk G-d.

The problem is, they think G-ds powers are a little over the top, and so do alot of christians.
 
falcon,
Job's wife had a choice to either stay with him or leave. she did not support Job and asked him to curse god and she wished death upon Job. It isn't clear what happened to her or if Job remarried.
I think God's greatest gift to humans is choice. we can choose whatever we want.
The book of Job is not a story about testing one's life, but one's faith. Human life is not the most important thing to God. He is concerned about the choices we make. If are human shells were important to our eternal life, would he allow so much suffering? what awaits us "entities", as dragon put it, will make this life here on Earth pale in comparison.
It dosen't seem like God made a deal with the Devil about Job, just that he wouldn't intervene if the devil made him suffer.
Choice is probably the only unknown thing in the universe. that is the beauty of existence.
If I were Job I would just be glad it was over, and God returned him his good fortune as it really makes no difference, he will still make choices and his destiny will be determined by which ones he makes.
 
Though it has no religious significance to me, here is what I think about the scenario:

In the end, Jobs, though filled with doubt, kept his infestimal faith in God. When he was about to lose all his faith, God appeared in a form of winds and voice and preached to Jobs about his mightiness, about he created all thigns in the world. When Jobs nodded, God gave him mre property, more kids, and a hotter wife, replacing JObs everything and giving him more than ever before.
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At this time, Job was ill and listens to a voice in the wind tell him about the creation of the world. Yet his preconceived notions of the beginning of our planet might have obscured his perspective. When God gives him another wife, does God kill the first wife? Because Job would be an adulterer if he lay with another woman unless his wife were deceased. Or is there something I missed?

Anyway, I wouldn't worry about it. We're all dust in the end.
 
the story of job starts out with three men rebuking him and in rebuking him they tell his story. finally when the yong whippersnapper tells him off (while the others somewhat simpathized with him) he starts to dout god and that is when god comes out and says that job was his man the whole way through.

the story is to show that one is supposed to know love and serve god in this world and be with him forever in the next, also that god only gives us the amount of suffering which we can handle.

god loved job as much as any of his other creations such as the devil he was teaching the devil a lesson because he knew the faithfulness of job.

job learned that the lord he loved also loved him through all his hardship, that was not imposed by his lord but allowed to happen, his lord was with him.

so as to god loving job sometimes the ones god love the most suffer the most look at his son he was kille din one of the most painful methods known to man, god's ways are not our ways as the book says but those who belive know he loves them like a timmy knows his parents love him even though they leave him at home with vicky most of the time
 
JOB was originally written as a play... for the stage.

it was not meant to be the word of GOD... it was not meant to be fact.

it was not meant to be real history....

but Constantine and his buddies put it in the bible and said it was the word of GOD... and people have accepted it.

but it is still just a play... one with way to much dialoge....

-MT
 
draqon said:
First, were is proof of Gods existence?
Second, were is proof of devils/Satans existence?
Thirds, were is proof this story is not a total Bull+(waste)?
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That's stupid. The bible, like most other religious texts is just a philosophical tool. God is merely a metaphor. The stoies are used to enforce faith, or to teach a lesson. In the case of Job, that lesson is partially discipline, as well as optimism. And ironically, if you are optimistic and know discipline, things will usually turn out better for you.
alexb123 said:
If this was anyone apart from God this would called a sick joke!

The point of this sermon is so that christian can all say to each other when things get bad, 'this si nothing compared to job'. Its a Psychology trick that all, its so people can always no matter how hard things are always make an upward social comparision.
Click to expand...
There were many reasons for this story, that is only one of them. Any non-christian can use this story to learn from, but you have to tune out all of the religious non-sense.
draqon said:
O wait I remember!!! The whole christian thing ideology is life is suffering and not a happy place, thats one of the reason i chose atheism.
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Life is suffering, and if not, you must be very lucky. By nature, life must be painful in order for things to make you happy from a relative aspect.
Mosheh Thezion said:
JOB was originally written as a play... for the stage.
it was not meant to be the word of GOD... it was not meant to be fact.
it was not meant to be real history....
but Constantine and his buddies put it in the bible and said it was the word of GOD... and people have accepted it.
but it is still just a play... one with way to much dialoge....
-MT
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Great point.
 
Ricky Houy said:
Sure he is omniscient, in a 2000+ year old hebrew translation. Which translates to he can only do, and know what is in a possible, and uncontradicting manor to himself. Alot of Athiests get confused on this translation because of some texts entered into debates trying to debunk G-d.

The problem is, they think G-ds powers are a little over the top, and so do alot of christians.
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Sorry, that changes nothing to the story.
 
Little_Birdie said:
the story is to show that one is supposed to know love and serve god in this world and be with him forever in the next, also that god only gives us the amount of suffering which we can handle.

god loved job as much as any of his other creations such as the devil he was teaching the devil a lesson because he knew the faithfulness of job.
Click to expand...

A load of crap. There are no lessons Satan can learn as that would make the concept of the devil null and void. A god would not pander to the devil.

job learned that the lord he loved also loved him through all his hardship, that was not imposed by his lord but allowed to happen, his lord was with him.
Click to expand...

He should have learned that his god was cruel and selfish for causing so much hardship to an innocent man.

so as to god loving job sometimes the ones god love the most suffer the most look at his son he was kille din one of the most painful methods known to man, god's ways are not our ways as the book says but those who belive know he loves them like a timmy knows his parents love him even though they leave him at home with vicky most of the time
Click to expand...

Nonsense, your saying its quite acceptable to treat children the same way god would treat Job. If gods ways are not our ways, what then is the point of the story? Why should a loving god impose suffering?
 
rjr6 said:
I think God's greatest gift to humans is choice. we can choose whatever we want...
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Thus in the story god chose to allow job to suffer. Or he chose to allow his 'evil' arch nemesis to inflict suffering on an unwitting peon.

rjr6 said:
The book of Job is not a story about testing one's life, but one's faith. Human life is not the most important thing to God. He is concerned about the choices we make. If are human shells were important to our eternal life, would he allow so much suffering?
Click to expand...

Self-serving justification (or theism serving). If life is not important, or not even the most important, that brings into question the whole 100% pure goodness claim of the christian deity right?

Mosheh Thezion said:
JOB was originally written as a play... for the stage.
it was not meant to be the word of GOD... it was not meant to be fact.
it was not meant to be real history....
but Constantine and his buddies put it in the bible and said it was the word of GOD... and people have accepted it.
but it is still just a play... one with way to much dialoge....
-MT
Click to expand...

I certainly hope so, since it was one of the most brutal stories in the bible.

However, doesn't this bring into question the validity of the rest of the compendium to you? Can you really identify which parts are "real" and which were politically influenced? Maybe the whole thing was a work of fiction?

This is akin to the Limbo thread, believers choosing which parts are "real" and which parts are "fictional" on whims and fancies.
 
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