Jihad

The are two interpretations of Jihad. There's the wrong interpretation, which suggests that a Human can MURDER another Human - this is the belief of "Kafir" such as Sunni and Shia Kafir. Then there's the Qadiani Muslim belief that Jihad can NEVER EVER HARM ANOTHER HUMAN.

So, we have two types of "belief"
** Qadiani Muslim Peaceful Jihad
and
** Shia/Sunni Kafir Violent Jihad


So, what I was wondering is IF a Human were to look at these two types of belief and were to pick of the two? Which system of belief is the closer to God which of the two would you choose and why???

They are both inherently violent, as they both believe that they are correct, without any evidence to go on but faith in the reported words of an ancient philosopher/ warlord. It separates people into two groups, the converted and the yet to be converted. It's just a matter of degree that one is less violent than the other.
 
They are both inherently violent

You're also just babbling like justlovely

The word jihad occurs 41 times in the Quran and not once is it associated with war or violence.
 
Mohammad was kind of like George Washington without the Violence. So that was all Peace too. Trying to free Arab people and give them a democracy - only using Peace.

The Prophet did engage in war, and it was justified as Allah swt had ordered it. If an enemy invades your town, will you bow down to them and submit saying 'peace'? No, a real believer would take up the sword to defend the innocent.

So, if we were to compare "mainstream" Sunni and Shia Kafir then we see a lot of Violence and think that this tell us that they have been at that spot in the cycle for a new message.

By declaring Muslims as Non-Muslims, this is known as takfir. It is a tremendous sin in the eyes of God. Also, you are attempting to imply that all 1.7 billion Muslims of the world are violent and engaging in war. If this was the case, the situation would be radically different. Violence, chaos, and anarchy followed occupation and destruction such as witnessed in Iraq and Afghanistan. If America were invaded by a foreign power (such as the USSR in the cold war), similar events would take place in a society in which there is no law and order.

So, it seems like someone who was comparing a VIOLENT type of "Islam" with a NON-VIOLENT type of "Islam" would pick the NON-VIOLENT. But, maybe not, I suppose if a person was violent minded like that Diamondhearts then maybe not.

This is a personal attack. I have asked you to prove your referring to me as violent person, but you never have. Baseless accusations should not be accepted in this forum.

I am reporting you right now.

Well, the reason I thought about this was because my friends and I were at the university handing out fliers and a Sunni Kafir started screaming in Arabic (so we didn't know what he was saying) and he actually pushed my firend and I really hard. My friend, she was shaking a little but we both stood their strong for Allah and eventually that boy left but he was filled with hate and I was worried maybe he might do something, but, I don't think so because Allah protects the rightous.

So this weekend we are going to make new fliers and hand them out in front of a Buddhist festival! (Birthday celebration I guess) WITH our other girl friend who is from India and is Buddhist. She said that we will see a big difference with the way Buddhists people will treat us.

Naturally, as is the case with this. We have no way of proving whether an Arab pushed you for handing out fliers. You can contact your university if such an event occurred. However, I think it just a lie you made up to prove your point.

You aren't the first to try to convince us using this type of strategy that Muslims are evil, violent, subhuman, etc.

Your agenda is quite clear.
 
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The Prophet did engage in war
"The" prophet, listen to yourself.

Oh and no he did not engage in war all all. NEVER and any TRUE Muslims would know that a Prophet does not engage in war. That's just so so so so SO STUPID.

Do you think Allah, Allah that is everything, Allah that created all Humans needs a human to kill other humans? Are you a retard or what? Allah could just make all humans Allah wanted dead - dead. And that quick. To suggest that Mohammad murdered people is just the biggest stupidest thing I have ever heard.

Why don't you try using your brain and think for a minuet about how STUPID it sounds to say Allah told a human to kill other humans for Allah. Why? Is Allah so weak he needs Humans to kill each other? That's just the top of stupidity. If Allah wanted someone dead then they'd be dead. Allah doesn't want ANYONE dead.


No, a real believer would take up the sword

prove your referring to me as violent person,
Why don't you TRY to read your own words. You are VIOLENT because you say MUSLIMS should KILL other HUMANS.



I would like everyone here to know that REAL Muslims don't murder anyone. NEVER.
EVER.

They are purely PEACEFUL.

DiamondHearts is a violent-minded kafir. Ban me I don't care. yeah, you know what REAL Muslims do when a loud mouth violent kafir start yelling - we stand there and peacefully stare them down. And you know what - they eventually shut up and leaves. Allah defends the innocent!
 
"The" prophet, listen to yourself.

Oh and no he did not engage in war all all. NEVER and any TRUE Muslims would know that a Prophet does not engage in war. That's just so so so so SO STUPID.

Do you think Allah, Allah that is everything, Allah that created all Humans needs a human to kill other humans? Are you a retard or what? Allah could just make all humans Allah wanted dead - dead. And that quick.

War is necessary in some instances. If a man came into your home with a gun pointed at you or your family with the intention to kill, would you let him go away? If you had a gun would you shoot him to prevent harm to your family, or would you let him shoot them?

The logical and human response is for the human being to hold on to what is precious to him, especially those he loves. Killing is necessary to prevent injustice. If another country invades your land, would you let them massacre your people, or would you resist them and fight their soldiers?

Holy Quran, Surah Al Baqarah

2: 190. Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.

191. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.

192. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

193. And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah. but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.

194. The prohibited month for the prohibited month,- and so for all things prohibited,- there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, Transgress ye likewise against him. But fear Allah, and know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves.


The Quran specifically deals with this topic. If you care to discuss your theories from on Islamic standpoint, you will have to prove them from citing Islamic sources.


To suggest that Mohammad murdered people is just the biggest stupidest thing I have ever heard.

I agree, hence why I never said that. Murder is a sin. Do you know the difference between fighting against those who fight against you and murder? Both are acts of killing, one is justified due to the ideal of the preservation of life, property, and freedom.

Why don't you try using your brain and think for a minuet about how STUPID it sounds to say Allah told a human to kill other humans for Allah. Why? Is Allah so weak he needs Humans to kill each other? That's just the top of stupidity. If Allah wanted someone dead then they'd be dead. Allah doesn't want ANYONE dead.

Allah swt gives human beings the right to kill other human beings in self-defense. This is the natural way which God has revealed to us, from the religion of Abraham. Most people do not have a problem comprehending this concept. For those who are faced with occupation, subjugation, genocide, and oppression, teaching them not to defend themselves is not only immoral, but a crime against humanity. Allah swt does not need us to do anything, He is above the need of anything. We defend ourselves for the safety of our families and precious ones, and Allah teaches that we must do this to establish justice in the land and rout evil. Therefore, Allah swt is pleased with all undertaking of man which is true, just, honorable, and steadfast in paving of a more equitable world for all human beings.


Why don't you TRY to read your own words. You are VIOLENT because you say MUSLIMS should KILL other HUMANS.

Not only Muslims. All people have the right to defend themselves. By your definition, everyone is violent except for you. If there is a murderer and rapist who is assaulting someone in front of you, would you not subdue him or kill him from harming the innocent one?

I would like everyone here to know that REAL Muslims don't murder anyone. NEVER.
EVER.

They are purely PEACEFUL.

I agree with you. Real Muslims don't murder anyone. I have never advocated that Muslims should murder anyone. If you think protecting a family member or innocent person from harm by killing the assailant is murder, then you do not yet grasp what real Islam is. Islam does not prohibit people from defending themselves. Your knowledge of Islam is minimal at best, and you have never once cited any verse from Quran or Sunnah to support your wild theories.

DiamondHearts is a violent-minded kafir. Ban me I don't care. yeah, you know what REAL Muslims do when a loud mouth violent kafir start yelling - we stand there and peacefully stare them down. And you know what - they eventually shut up and leaves. Allah defends the innocent!

I just read your post, and I really have to ask, are you completely there?

Real Muslims do not issue unwarranted personal attacks against others. Real Muslims listen and respect the views of other Muslims. Real Muslims don't appropriate all religious authority to themselves, and appoint themselves as 'God' to declare who is Muslim or not. To establish someone as a Non-Muslim, you must prove this from the Quran and Sunnah, the two sources of Islamic law. My views are completely in line with both the Quran and Sunnah, whilst your views, as I have proven, completely contradict the Quran and Sunnah.

I am being very patient and courteous to you, I expect the same in return. If you had spoken this way to any other of the members of this forum, they would likely have assassinated your character and issued personal attacks in return. I will not do that.

I hope you read the Quran and attain guidance from the Sunnah, and find out what Islam really is. You have been misguided by a fringe sect which knows nothing of the majesty of the great Islamic religion. May Allah swt guide us all to the path which He has chosen for us. Ameen.
 
Kafir vs heretic in a no holds bar koran off.

Who will prophet? Allah this and more!
 
"The" prophet, listen to yourself.

Oh and no he did not engage in war all all. NEVER and any TRUE Muslims would know that a Prophet does not engage in war. That's just so so so so SO STUPID.

There is historical evidence for this. Unless your beliefs eschew facts as unnecessary encumberances.

There is no doubt that Mohammed existed, occasional attempts to deny it notwithstanding. His neighbours in Byzantine Syria got to hear of him within two years of his death at the latest; a Greek text written during the Arab invasion of Syria between 632 and 634 mentions that "a false prophet has appeared among the Saracens" and dismisses him as an impostor on the ground that prophets do not come "with sword and chariot". It thus conveys the impression that he was actually leading the invasions.

http://www.opendemocracy.net/faith-europe_islam/mohammed_3866.jsp
 
You're also just babbling like justlovely

The word jihad occurs 41 times in the Quran and not once is it associated with war or violence.

Doesn't matter. The struggle is to convert the world to Islam. That means getting people to accept on faith something that is not supported by any evidence. Such a campaign is dangerous to mankind and inherently violent. You cannot reason with faith.
 
The struggle is to convert the world to Islam. That means getting people to accept on faith something that is not supported by any evidence.

What struggle? Where? :crazy:

Its the Americans who are "liberating" everyone, its you who is bemoaning that Iran is no longer "westernised"
 
What does that have to do with it? Americans are Muslims too. We aren't trying to convert anyone. We have had idiot presidents that invade countries for no good reason, but note that he was motivated by the same sort of fanatical ideology- evangelical Christianity.
 
Yeah right, thats your excuse now, but its been going on for 60 years, or before that.
 
Now you are just changing the subject, we were at war with Communism for all that time. This wasn't because we hated the idea of people holding property communally, but because it was inevitably associated with an oppressive police state.
 
Yeah right, thats your excuse now, but its been going on for 60 years, or before that.

No spider, what sam is saying is that everything went wrong in America when Israel was creating.

So effectively what he is saying is that Israel's existance actually is corrupting America and that the Jews and Israelis are to blame for all of the worlds problems blah, blah, blah.

Sam your not very original did you know that?
 
Like in Vietnam now. :rolleyes:

In its 2004 report on Human Rights Practices, the U.S. Department of State characterized Vietnam’s human rights record as “poor” and cited the continuation of “serious abuses.” According to the report, the government has imposed restrictions on freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, and freedom of association. Citizens are denied the right to change their government. The government continues to hold political prisoners who have expressed views at odds with government policy. Prison conditions are generally “harsh, but not unduly so given the country's level of economic development,” according to the State Department assessment. Vietnam has no independent judiciary, and there is no right to a fair and speedy trial. Human rights organizations are not permitted to operate. Discrimination against women and ethnic minorities, child labor, and prostitution are serious problems.[citation needed] The government is attempting to address the child labor issue. The government officially provides for freedom of religion and recognizes Buddhist, Roman Catholic, Protestant, Hoa Hao, Cao Dai, and Muslim denominations. However, non-sanctioned groups, including branches of even the recognized denominations, face harassment. [wikipedia]
 
If anyone wishes to prove any point regarding Islamic theology, then that individual must provide evidence from the Quran and Sunnat. If he does not do so, then his point shall remain unsubstantiated and pure conjecture. I have clearly laid out the proper Islamic methodology regarding the subjects mentions. If anyone wishes to debate me, bring Islamic sources and only then can such an exchange even be referred to as a debate.

Furthermore, the topic of this thread is the Islamic ruling concerning 'Jihad' and particular views regarding it of Muslims.

If you have no interest in debate, please leave as you are only hindering the real purpose of this thread.
 
Right, because Muslims cannot think for themselves. Their behavior can never come from internal motivations, but only from a book.

My point is that such texts have an effect on the human psyche quite apart from the literal meanings of the words. When we separate the human race into believers (destined for a paradise so great we can hardly imagine) and unbelievers (destined to be tortured for eternity by God's own minions) we create a violent tension that can't be mediated by reason.
 
What an individual Muslim says is not legally binding on any other individual Muslim, unless it is proven from the sources of Islamic law (Quran and Sunnah). A Muslim can say whatever he wishes, yet if he attempts to say "Islam is so and so," then it is incumbent on him to prove his assertion with evidence. Religion is a science, the understanding of implementing to rules of God as judged from the Quran (the world of God), the Sunnah (the word of the Prophet, peace be to him), the consensus of the past scholars (ijma), and the use of logical reasoning (qiyas). All of these most be taken into account when judging on a particular matter. This prevents the rise of heresy and the conflicts associated with disunity.

It is God who has divided human beings into two categories, those on whom is His favor (those who belief, commit righteous deeds, and struggle for truth and justice) and those on whom He is separate from (those who disbelieve, commit evil deeds, and struggle for falsehood and mischief). Regarding who is rewarded with Paradise, that is solely up to the Creator of All that Exists. regarding who is punished with Hellfire, that is the sole jurisdiction of the Most Just and Most Honorable. God does what He wishes.

If you are anxious about your future and afterlife, I suggest you find the truth for yourself and change your status to be compatible with God's Mercy.

May Allah swt guide us to the straight path and bless us in this life and the hereafter. Ameen.
 
There is no afterlife, so I'm not worried about it. There is no ultimate judge of human beings except time. Religion is the opposite of science.
 
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