Jews and Jesus
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williamwbishop
Registered Senior Member
Got a joke for you. There's this jewish rabbi, who one day says he's the son of god. Now, the funniest part, and excuse me if I laugh out loud...but, that's what happened. There is no basis for the belief in jesus as the messiah. That is why 2 of the three branches of abrahams line do not believe in jesus.
ConsequentAtheist
Registered Senior Member
Constantine.
2 of three, Islam And Judaism?
Muslims believe in Jesus. They witness that he is is the messiah. But that he's BUT a Human
williamwbishop
Registered Senior Member
Yes, quite I should have been more specific, he was seen as a prophet, but not he son of god, and thus no religious following, iirc. Thank you for the correction.
Frank4YAHWEH
Registered Member
Why I Do Not Follow The Jews
Yahdah means I will praise Yahweh. The name, Yahdah, is a contraction of the Name, Yahweh and the phrase, I will praise; Anchor Bible Vol. 1, pp 228, Doubleday, Garden City New York and The New International Version Hebrew-English Old Testament, Vol. 1, pp.77, Zodervan Publishing, Grand Rapids, MI.
From this name is mistakenly derived the modern name, 'Jew', a designator, originally, of all people who worship Yahweh: Clark's Commentary, Vol. 1, pp. 184, Abingdon Press, New York, N.Y.
Like the Name, Yahweh, and all other names with the Name of Yahweh compounded in it, after the Babylonian Captivity, and prior to the time of our Messiah, the Temple Elite came to believe the Name, Yahweh, was too holy to pronounce; His Name became 'ineffable'. Due to this erronous belief, vowel points were added to these names as a signal to the reader to avoid pronunciation of the Name, Yahweh, in any way. Later scholars, unaware of these pointing codes, translated these names with vowel points added, and, as a result, the erronous name Yehudah (Masoretic), Jehudah (King James Version) and Judah (King James and all later versions) were created: Century Bible, Vol. 1, pp. 91, T.E. and E.C. Jack, Edinburg, Scotland, and Peake's Commentary on the Bible, Thomas Nelson, London, England.
Some have admitted that Yahweh's Name IS in the name given to Yaacob's [Jacob] fourth son, but that it should be pronounced, Yahudah, the long u sound coming from the letter waw, within Yahweh's Name. However in the Hebrew's original, unadulterated form it contains no vowels.; A Practical Grammer for Classical Hebrew, pp. 6, Clarendon Press, Oxford, England.
So the letter waw, in Classical Hebrew, functions as a silent conjunction, connecting the Yah in Yahweh's Name and the dah in Adah; I will Praise The Hebrew Tongue Restored pps. 112-113. G.P. Putnam's Sons, New York, N.Y.
Due to the fact that Yahweh is to be praised, the proper name, YAHDAH, is the name I prefer to use to give Honor and Glory to YAHWEH, for He expects His people to Honor and Glorify His Name.
Here is a very interesting article.
Why I Do Not Follow The Jews by Betty Martin
Yahdah means I will praise Yahweh. The name, Yahdah, is a contraction of the Name, Yahweh and the phrase, I will praise; Anchor Bible Vol. 1, pp 228, Doubleday, Garden City New York and The New International Version Hebrew-English Old Testament, Vol. 1, pp.77, Zodervan Publishing, Grand Rapids, MI.
From this name is mistakenly derived the modern name, 'Jew', a designator, originally, of all people who worship Yahweh: Clark's Commentary, Vol. 1, pp. 184, Abingdon Press, New York, N.Y.
Like the Name, Yahweh, and all other names with the Name of Yahweh compounded in it, after the Babylonian Captivity, and prior to the time of our Messiah, the Temple Elite came to believe the Name, Yahweh, was too holy to pronounce; His Name became 'ineffable'. Due to this erronous belief, vowel points were added to these names as a signal to the reader to avoid pronunciation of the Name, Yahweh, in any way. Later scholars, unaware of these pointing codes, translated these names with vowel points added, and, as a result, the erronous name Yehudah (Masoretic), Jehudah (King James Version) and Judah (King James and all later versions) were created: Century Bible, Vol. 1, pp. 91, T.E. and E.C. Jack, Edinburg, Scotland, and Peake's Commentary on the Bible, Thomas Nelson, London, England.
Some have admitted that Yahweh's Name IS in the name given to Yaacob's [Jacob] fourth son, but that it should be pronounced, Yahudah, the long u sound coming from the letter waw, within Yahweh's Name. However in the Hebrew's original, unadulterated form it contains no vowels.; A Practical Grammer for Classical Hebrew, pp. 6, Clarendon Press, Oxford, England.
So the letter waw, in Classical Hebrew, functions as a silent conjunction, connecting the Yah in Yahweh's Name and the dah in Adah; I will Praise The Hebrew Tongue Restored pps. 112-113. G.P. Putnam's Sons, New York, N.Y.
Due to the fact that Yahweh is to be praised, the proper name, YAHDAH, is the name I prefer to use to give Honor and Glory to YAHWEH, for He expects His people to Honor and Glorify His Name.
Here is a very interesting article.
Why I Do Not Follow The Jews by Betty Martin
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From this name [Yahdah] is mitakenly derived the modern name, 'Jew'
May I interject a thought here?
The term 'Jew' is first used in the Old Testament, and only in the following three books:
Zechariah 8:23 (520-480 BC)
Jeremiah 34:9 (during the reign of (Zedekiah (Judah), 597-586 BC)
Esther - 8 times (483-473 BC)
The actual name is a Hebrew word as shown below:
3064. Yhuwdéy (yeh-hoo-dee); patron. from 3063; a Jehudite (i.e. Judaite or Jew), or desc. of Jehudah (i.e. Judah): Jew.
James Strong, New Strong's dictionary of Hebrew and Greek words [computer file], electronic ed., Logos Library System, (Nashville: Thomas Nelson) 1997, c1996.
During the time in question, the nation of Israel had been divided into two kingdoms, Israel and Judah. Thus, it became practice to refer to the southern kingdom as Judeans. In addition, the Hebrew term for Judean and Yahweh are very similar.
3064. Yhuwdéy (yeh-hoo-dee); patron. from 3063; a Jehudite (i.e. Judaite or Jew), or desc. of Jehudah (i.e. Judah): Jew.
3065. Yhuwdéy (yeh-hoo-dee); the same as 3064; Jehudi, an Isr.:- Jehudi.
3066. Yhuwdéyth (yeh-hoo-deeth); fem. of 3064; the Jewish (used adv.) language:- in the Jews' language.
3067. Yhuwdéyth (yeh-ho-deeth'; the same as 3066; Jewess; Jehudith, a Canaanitess:- Judith.
3068. Yhovah (yeh-ho-vaw); from 1961; (the) self-Existent or Eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God:- Jehovah; the Lord. comp. 3050, 3069.
James Strong, New Strong's dictionary of Hebrew and Greek words [computer file], electronic ed., Logos Library System, (Nashville: Thomas Nelson) 1997, c1996.
Thus, I think it is a stretch to consider the shortened name to be an abbreviation of Yahdah, rather than Yahudey.
prior to the time of our Messiah, the Temple Elite came to believe the Name, Yahweh, was too holy to pronounce; His Name became 'ineffable'. Due to this erronous belief, vowel points were added to these names as a signal to the reater to avid pronunciation of the Name
This is completely erroneous.
The ancient Hebrew manuscripts did not contain vowels for ANY of the words. The Dead Sea Scrolls (approx 200 BC - 70 AD) don't have any vowels points in the documents. This is why they were able to get the books of 1st & 2nd Kings on the same scroll. When the vowels were added (Hebrew > Greek), the scribes were forced to split the book "Kings" into two books.
Some time after the time of the Christ (i.e. between 70 AD and 900 AD), the Massorete scribes added the vowel points in their copy of the Masoretic Text, which is the standard that all Bibles are based upon. It is believed that the scribes were losing the ability to recognize the Hebrew words based upon the constants only.
Later Scholars, unaware of these pointing codes, translated these names with vowel points added
The Massorete scribes added vowel points to the 'ineffable' word for God (Yahweh). Thus, it is likely that no one knew the proper spelling when the vowel points were added.
A Jewish father was troubled by the way his son turned out, and went to see his Rabbi about it. "I brought him up in the faith, gave him a very expensive bar mitzvah, cost me a fortune to educate him. Then he tells me last week he has decided to be a Christian! Rabbi, where did I go wrong?"
"Funny you should come to me," said the Rabbi. "Like you I, too, brought my boy up in the faith, put him through University, cost me a fortune, then one day he, too, tells me he has decided to become a Christian." "What did you do?" asked the father. "I turned to God for the answer" replied the Rabbi. "And what did he say?" pressed the father. "God said, 'Funny you should come to me...' "
"Funny you should come to me," said the Rabbi. "Like you I, too, brought my boy up in the faith, put him through University, cost me a fortune, then one day he, too, tells me he has decided to become a Christian." "What did you do?" asked the father. "I turned to God for the answer" replied the Rabbi. "And what did he say?" pressed the father. "God said, 'Funny you should come to me...' "
ConsequentAtheist
Registered Senior Member
To which pile were you refering?
ConsequentAtheist
Registered Senior Member
Except for those that are not. The Septuagint is the variant found in the oldest Christian Bibles:
- 4th century CE: Codex Sinaiticus
- 4th century CE: Codex Vaticanus
- 5th century CE: Codex Alexandrinus
Frank4YAHWEH
Registered Member
Jew = Ju - (dah)
Look it up in your Funk & Wagnalls. To address me as a 'Jew' would be offensive.
Jew
How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Yes, they are prophets of the deciet of their own minds;
Who devise; plan and scheme, to cause My people to forget My Name through their dreams, which they tell every man to his neighbor, just as their fathers have forgotten My Name for Baal; Lord. (Yeremyah [Jeremiah] 23: 26, 27-)
Look it up in your Funk & Wagnalls. To address me as a 'Jew' would be offensive.
Jew
How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Yes, they are prophets of the deciet of their own minds;
Who devise; plan and scheme, to cause My people to forget My Name through their dreams, which they tell every man to his neighbor, just as their fathers have forgotten My Name for Baal; Lord. (Yeremyah [Jeremiah] 23: 26, 27-)
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ConsequentAtheist
Registered Senior Member
Certainly it could be viewed as a slight against Jews.
You are WRONG, we Muslims Believe in JESUS as Prophet and the messiah, we believe also that he did not die on the cross, he is alive in the heaven and he will come back again to save our world.
http://www.unn.ac.uk/societies/islamic/quran/naeindex.htm
The Holy Quran: 19. Surât Maryam:
And mention in the Book (the Qur'ân, O Muhammad, the story of) Maryam (Mary), when she withdrew in seclusion from her family to a place facing east.
17.
She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent to her Our Ruh [angel Jibrael (Gabriel)], and he appeared before her in the form of a man in all respects.
18.
She said: "Verily! I seek refuge with the Most Beneficent (Allâh) from you, if you do fear Allâh."
19.
(The angel) said: "I am only a Messenger from your Lord, (to announce) to you the gift of a righteous son."
20.
She said: "How can I have a son, when no man has touched me, nor am I unchaste?"
21.
He said: "So (it will be), your Lord said: 'That is easy for Me (Allâh): And (We wish) to appoint him as a sign to mankind and a mercy from Us (Allâh), and it is a matter (already) decreed, (by Allâh).' "
22.
So she conceived him, and she withdrew with him to a far place (i.e. Bethlehem valley about 4-6 miles from Jerusalem).
23.
And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a date-palm. She said: "Would that I had died before this, and had been forgotten and out of sight!"
24.
Then [the babe 'Iesa (Jesus) or Jibrael (Gabriel)] cried unto her from below her, saying: "Grieve not! Your Lord has provided a water stream under you;
25.
"And shake the trunk of date-palm towards you, it will let fall fresh ripe-dates upon you."
26.
"So eat and drink and be glad, and if you see any human being, say: 'Verily! I have vowed a fast unto the Most Beneficent (Allâh) so I shall not speak to any human being this day.'"
27.
Then she brought him (the baby) to her people, carrying him. They said: "O Mary! Indeed you have brought a thing Fariya (an unheard mighty thing).
28.
"O sister (i.e. the like) of Hârûn (Aaron) [not the brother of Mûsa (Moses), but he was another pious man at the time of Maryam (Mary)]! Your father was not a man who used to commit adultery, nor your mother was an unchaste woman."
29.
Then she pointed to him. They said: "How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?[]"
30.
"He ['Iesa (Jesus)] said: Verily! I am a slave of Allâh, He has given me the Scripture and made me a Prophet;[]"
31.
"And He has made me blessed wheresoever I be, and has enjoined on me Salât (prayer), and Zakât, as long as I live."
32.
"And dutiful to my mother, and made me not arrogant, unblest.
33.
"And Salâm (peace) be upon me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive!"
34.
Such is 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary). (it is) a statement of truth, about which they doubt (or dispute).
35.
It befits not (the Majesty of) Allâh that He should beget a son [this refers to the slander of Christians against Allâh, by saying that 'Iesa (Jesus) is the son of Allâh]. Glorified (and Exalted be He above all that they associate with Him). When He decrees a thing, He only says to it, "Be!" and it is[].
36.
['Iesa (Jesus) said]: "And verily Allâh is my Lord and your Lord. So worship Him (Alone). That is the Straight Path. (Allâh's Religion of Islâmic Monotheism which He did ordain for all of His Prophets)."
ConsequentAtheist
Registered Senior Member
A Short-Lived Vow
To everyone you see, say that you vow not to say anything! Got it.
C
celeron3466
Guest
The Meaning of Being A Jew
Believing in Jesus does not mean that you are not a Jew. You still remain a child of Abraham no matter what your beliefs are, don't you? In fact, was not Jesus a Jew? Did not Jesus go to the temple to worship? Did anyone doubt that Jesus was a Jew?
Jesus allowed mankind the opportunity to be reconciled to the God of the Jews. Jesus paved the way for all races of men to serve the same God. That did not make Jewish believers non-Jews, but instead allowed non-Jews to serve the true God as well.
Being a Christian, or follower of Christ, means that no matter what nationality we come from, we can have the same opportunity as the Jew, namely to serve the only true God.
If you are offended by this...well I'm sorry...is that not why men decided to impale the Christ? However, by doing so they provided the greatest sacrifice mankind has ever seen...allowing all to approach God and be forgiven of their sins.
Believing in Jesus does not mean that you are not a Jew. You still remain a child of Abraham no matter what your beliefs are, don't you? In fact, was not Jesus a Jew? Did not Jesus go to the temple to worship? Did anyone doubt that Jesus was a Jew?
Jesus allowed mankind the opportunity to be reconciled to the God of the Jews. Jesus paved the way for all races of men to serve the same God. That did not make Jewish believers non-Jews, but instead allowed non-Jews to serve the true God as well.
Being a Christian, or follower of Christ, means that no matter what nationality we come from, we can have the same opportunity as the Jew, namely to serve the only true God.
If you are offended by this...well I'm sorry...is that not why men decided to impale the Christ? However, by doing so they provided the greatest sacrifice mankind has ever seen...allowing all to approach God and be forgiven of their sins.
Frank4YAHWEH
Registered Member
No slight intended.
Jews do not 'Praise Yahweh', Yahdah means, 'I will praise Yahweh'. They believe it to be some kind of sin to mention His Name.
I would rather be called an atheist.
Jews do not 'Praise Yahweh', Yahdah means, 'I will praise Yahweh'. They believe it to be some kind of sin to mention His Name.
I would rather be called an atheist.
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ConsequentAtheist
Registered Senior Member
Re: No slight intended.
That's libelous, but I expect no more from you.
Frank4YAHWEH
Registered Member
ConsequentAtheist,
And I you.
And I you.