Jesus vs the Jews: Day of Rapture
- Thread starter S.A.M.
- Start date
Are those two distinct things? I'm not up to date on Christian theological details
Isn't the Rapture also the Second Coming?
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
It's not the same thing, but close enough for your purposes.
The Rapture is a futurist interpretation of Christian eschatology, in which it is posited that Christians will be gathered together in the air to meet Christ at, or up to seven years prior to, his return.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture
The Second Coming of Christ (also Second Advent or Parousia), is the anticipated return of Jesus Christ from Heaven to Earth. This prophecy is found in the Canonical gospels and is part of most Christian eschatology. The anticipated event is predicted in Biblical Messianic prophecy. Views about the nature of Jesus' Second Coming vary among Christian denominations and sometimes among individual Christians within these denominations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_coming
What do the unbelievers have to believe? That Jesus is God? Can they get a pass if they think he [or HE, since one would not want to invoke the gods, esp the crazy ones] is a prophet [pbuh]? How is this purge supposed to happen? When? Where?
I don't know which is which, but I do know that some people are really really angry about these things. Apparently, it is crucial to distinguish between the two, because if you don't, you go to hell and such.
Why don't they just cut the story short and say everyone will go to hell!
Geez (ha!), I guess they were too proud, or loved life, or something like that.
I can't ever get a straight answer to any of those questions. But basically, the "faithful", the "believers" will be taken up to meet Jesus before all hell breaks loose on Earth for 7 years. Then Jesus returns and takes control of the Earth.
I never did understand why he didn't just get it over with the first time around.
superstring01
Moderator
You're honestly trying to make sense out of the kookiest part of Christianity, one which was added well after Jesus left the earth. The book of Relevation (aka Apocolipse) was a rush job and was--like most biblical books--cobbled together into the bible more by Catholic decrees than by any original gathering of true Christians.
~String
superstring01
Moderator
Oh. The commonest belief as to why all this wasn't done the first time was because of the need for all people, everywhere, to have the opportunity to "hear Christ's message". As such, there would be no rapture until every nation and every tribe had been given the opportunity to hear and reject or accept the word of Christ.
Some speculate that 2k years from Christ's assent into heaven (approx. 2032) would be the time.
~String
Some speculate that 2k years from Christ's assent into heaven (approx. 2032) would be the time.
~String
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Well its serendipity. I recently came across a real life instance of one of those who are waiting for this occasion. It was pretty scary
Amongst Christian theologists, there exist three popular beliefs regarding eschatology: premillennialism, postmillennialism, and amillennialism. In the broadest sense, the concept of millennialism in Christianity refers to the general belief that in the future, a Golden Age will come in which Jesus will return (Second Coming) to reign for 1000 years over the earth, concluding with the final judgment of mankind. However, there are a variety of different outlooks as to the specifics concerning this generalized timeline.
Premillennialism is the belief that, put very simply, Jesus’ return will precede the establishment of God’s earthly kingdom. This means that Jesus will physically rule the world from a throne, most likely located in Jerusalem. However, premillennialism itself may also be subdivided into two categories: historic and dispensational. Historical premillennialists believe that the establishment of this earthly kingdom will occur following the Great Tribulation. The Great Tribulation is a period of time in the future when people across the world will face terrible disasters, wars, and famines, resulting in the deaths of most of the earth’s inhabitants. Historical premillennialists therefore believe that Christians of the earth will be subjected to the miseries of the Tribulation, and will be forced to endure persecutions until such time that Jesus shall return (Second Coming) and establish a Godly kingdom on earth. To be more specific, Jesus is said to return and battle the Antichrist (who rules the world during Tribulation) in the battle of Armageddon; Jesus and his followers will be victorious, and establish the earthly kingdom. Dispensational premillennialists, on the other hand, believe that Jesus will return one day and make the Christians of the earth - both living and dead - ascend to heaven, an event also known as the Rapture. Following the Rapture, all non-Christians will be forced to endure the Tribulation, after which Jesus will return from heaven with all the world’s Christians to establish a 1000 year reign on earth ("1000 years" should not be given much literary attention - it is more likely to represent a long period of time than an exact interval).
Postmillennialism is the belief that Jesus’ return will occur after the establishment of God’s earthly kingdom. It is thought that the forces of Satan will eventually be overcome by the forces of good, and Christianity will spread across the world by virtue of the victory celebrated by the faithful. Only then will Jesus return to reign over the world.
Finally, amillennialism is the belief that God’s earthly kingdom will not feature the physical presence of Jesus on a throne. It is believed here, instead, that this kingdom of God will be spiritual in nature, and that following this long period of sustained spirituality across the nations, the final judgment of mankind shall be established.
Regarding the connection of Jews to Christian eschatology, the most important sect is dispensational premillennialism. In this sect, a clear division is made between the Church and Israel. Israel is interpreted in the writings much like it is interpreted in today’s political world - as an ethnic nation of Jews. The Church, on the other hand, is the diverse body of individuals who have come to accept Jesus. As such, the Rapture will only include the Christians of faith, as all other people of the earth (including the Jews) will be forced to remain behind and endure the Tribulation. Here, it is said that of the Jews remaining on the Earth, two-thirds will die, and the remaining third will be left in Tribulation to preach to the world that Jesus is, in fact, Messiah (the one-third remaining Jewish population figure is from Zechariah). Another book (Revelation, final book of New Testament) says specifically that 144,000 Jews will remain in Tribulation to spread the message of God to the unbelievers. These Jews will be pious and without fault before the throne of God. The reason why Israel as a whole is not saved in this belief system is because the inhabitants of Jerusalem (the Jews) must be cleansed from impurity and sin. Mind you, this is what the dispensationalists believe, who happen to constitute, from my understanding, the majority of Christians in America and are essentially the heart of Christian Zionism. Others think Zechariah does not refer to millennialism at all, but instead to the sack of Jerusalem by the Romans.
Premillennialism is the belief that, put very simply, Jesus’ return will precede the establishment of God’s earthly kingdom. This means that Jesus will physically rule the world from a throne, most likely located in Jerusalem. However, premillennialism itself may also be subdivided into two categories: historic and dispensational. Historical premillennialists believe that the establishment of this earthly kingdom will occur following the Great Tribulation. The Great Tribulation is a period of time in the future when people across the world will face terrible disasters, wars, and famines, resulting in the deaths of most of the earth’s inhabitants. Historical premillennialists therefore believe that Christians of the earth will be subjected to the miseries of the Tribulation, and will be forced to endure persecutions until such time that Jesus shall return (Second Coming) and establish a Godly kingdom on earth. To be more specific, Jesus is said to return and battle the Antichrist (who rules the world during Tribulation) in the battle of Armageddon; Jesus and his followers will be victorious, and establish the earthly kingdom. Dispensational premillennialists, on the other hand, believe that Jesus will return one day and make the Christians of the earth - both living and dead - ascend to heaven, an event also known as the Rapture. Following the Rapture, all non-Christians will be forced to endure the Tribulation, after which Jesus will return from heaven with all the world’s Christians to establish a 1000 year reign on earth ("1000 years" should not be given much literary attention - it is more likely to represent a long period of time than an exact interval).
Postmillennialism is the belief that Jesus’ return will occur after the establishment of God’s earthly kingdom. It is thought that the forces of Satan will eventually be overcome by the forces of good, and Christianity will spread across the world by virtue of the victory celebrated by the faithful. Only then will Jesus return to reign over the world.
Finally, amillennialism is the belief that God’s earthly kingdom will not feature the physical presence of Jesus on a throne. It is believed here, instead, that this kingdom of God will be spiritual in nature, and that following this long period of sustained spirituality across the nations, the final judgment of mankind shall be established.
Regarding the connection of Jews to Christian eschatology, the most important sect is dispensational premillennialism. In this sect, a clear division is made between the Church and Israel. Israel is interpreted in the writings much like it is interpreted in today’s political world - as an ethnic nation of Jews. The Church, on the other hand, is the diverse body of individuals who have come to accept Jesus. As such, the Rapture will only include the Christians of faith, as all other people of the earth (including the Jews) will be forced to remain behind and endure the Tribulation. Here, it is said that of the Jews remaining on the Earth, two-thirds will die, and the remaining third will be left in Tribulation to preach to the world that Jesus is, in fact, Messiah (the one-third remaining Jewish population figure is from Zechariah). Another book (Revelation, final book of New Testament) says specifically that 144,000 Jews will remain in Tribulation to spread the message of God to the unbelievers. These Jews will be pious and without fault before the throne of God. The reason why Israel as a whole is not saved in this belief system is because the inhabitants of Jerusalem (the Jews) must be cleansed from impurity and sin. Mind you, this is what the dispensationalists believe, who happen to constitute, from my understanding, the majority of Christians in America and are essentially the heart of Christian Zionism. Others think Zechariah does not refer to millennialism at all, but instead to the sack of Jerusalem by the Romans.
Not only does this perfectly describe The Rapture, it's my favorite American Dad:
American Dad-5x09 - Raptures Delight
Stan Smith.... GO TO HEAVEN!!
See from 10:00
He turned water into FINE.....!
American Dad-5x09 - Raptures Delight
Stan Smith.... GO TO HEAVEN!!
See from 10:00
He turned water into FINE.....!
The various theories regarding Christian eschatology do indeed originate from the Bible. The primary books which proponents consult are the First and Second Thessalonians, Revelation, and the Gospel of Matthew (all of which are part of the New Testament), although others sources such as Zechariah (part of the Hebrew Bible, or Tanakh) are often referenced.
The most rational interpretation of the Scriptures leads one to believe that the Rapture is a false doctrine. The idea that Jesus will return in secrecy to suddenly “take away” the believers to Heaven, and return at a later time hinges more or less on two verses in the First Thessalonians. Those who believe in the Rapture interpret these verses thinking that Jesus will return to gather the believers - both living and dead - and take them away (the destination believed to be heaven). It is important to realize that the First Thessalonians is a letter from Saint Paul which describes the state of the Church in Thessalonica at the time. Saint Paul intended to comfort the believers who mourned the losses of their fellow Christians, who thought that those who had died would never see the earthly kingdom. Therefore, Paul declared that the believers who are alive during the Second Coming would not precede in any way those who were dead, and a time would come when all the deceased believers would be resurrected.
What Thessalonians actually states is that Jesus’ return will be felt by all and happen suddenly (in contrast to the Rapture theory). The believers will manage to endure the Tribulation, at which point the dead shall be resurrected and the living will join them in spirit to meet Jesus as he makes his return to earth - the true Second Coming. Zechariah states that this return will happen in the greatest hour of need for mankind, when the forces of the Antichrist have made claim to the entire world (this is said to coincide with the utter destruction of Jerusalem and most of its inhabitants). In relation to the Jews, the dispensationalists (those who believe 1 Thessalonians refers to a seven-year long Rapture wherein only believers will be saved) believe most will die for their idolatry and sins (which is why they were not included in the Rapture), and only a handful of pious Jews will remain and spread the message of Jesus to the troubled earth. Those who do not believe in the Rapture argue that the believers will indeed experience the Tribulation, although many will be protected by God; the fate of the Jews will be the same - most will die, and only a portion will remain and accept Jesus as their Messiah.
It is also worthy of note to mention that the modern day belief in the Rapture originated primarily from John Nelson Darby, a nineteenth-century Evangelist. The idea of a Rapture did not exist before Darby.
The most rational interpretation of the Scriptures leads one to believe that the Rapture is a false doctrine. The idea that Jesus will return in secrecy to suddenly “take away” the believers to Heaven, and return at a later time hinges more or less on two verses in the First Thessalonians. Those who believe in the Rapture interpret these verses thinking that Jesus will return to gather the believers - both living and dead - and take them away (the destination believed to be heaven). It is important to realize that the First Thessalonians is a letter from Saint Paul which describes the state of the Church in Thessalonica at the time. Saint Paul intended to comfort the believers who mourned the losses of their fellow Christians, who thought that those who had died would never see the earthly kingdom. Therefore, Paul declared that the believers who are alive during the Second Coming would not precede in any way those who were dead, and a time would come when all the deceased believers would be resurrected.
What Thessalonians actually states is that Jesus’ return will be felt by all and happen suddenly (in contrast to the Rapture theory). The believers will manage to endure the Tribulation, at which point the dead shall be resurrected and the living will join them in spirit to meet Jesus as he makes his return to earth - the true Second Coming. Zechariah states that this return will happen in the greatest hour of need for mankind, when the forces of the Antichrist have made claim to the entire world (this is said to coincide with the utter destruction of Jerusalem and most of its inhabitants). In relation to the Jews, the dispensationalists (those who believe 1 Thessalonians refers to a seven-year long Rapture wherein only believers will be saved) believe most will die for their idolatry and sins (which is why they were not included in the Rapture), and only a handful of pious Jews will remain and spread the message of Jesus to the troubled earth. Those who do not believe in the Rapture argue that the believers will indeed experience the Tribulation, although many will be protected by God; the fate of the Jews will be the same - most will die, and only a portion will remain and accept Jesus as their Messiah.
It is also worthy of note to mention that the modern day belief in the Rapture originated primarily from John Nelson Darby, a nineteenth-century Evangelist. The idea of a Rapture did not exist before Darby.
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"It's just old Luke and Luke's waiting on the judgement day."Well its serendipity. I recently came across a real life instance of one of those who are waiting for this occasion. It was pretty scary
Living in the "Bible Belt" I've met quite a few. One of the scariest things is that some have actually told me that it doesn't matter what we do to the Earth. Because when Jesus returns, he'll fix it. :bugeye:
LOL so both islam and christianity will kill the jews in the end, They are so screwed
PS. any jews needing refuge can contact me.
PS. any jews needing refuge can contact me.