Jesus trial

[Flores]

Come on guys. Supposidly a murder was commited, and no one was put on a trial. Not any murder that I speak of, but the murder of the most important man in history. Jesus Christ.

Why didn't we have a trial for the murder. I thought the christian god said thou shall not kill, and an eye for eye. How can a god that said thou shall not kill, condone the savage murder via a torturing cross to an innocent man? Who died in the place of Jesus..Who died for killing Jesus? Who killed Jesus and got away with it?

Of course, you'll recite the most famous brain washed answer and say, Jesus died for all of us? well, that's what the Roman Catholics have taught you and your fathers for years. To elude justice, the Romans have decided to distribute punichment to the entire humanity. Instead of commiting to the murder of Jesus and serving the law, now we all have to pay for the murder. The Romans have even attached the punichment to young innocent babies. All for what? Coward Romans can't take the blame. No one man could stand up and say the truth, I killed Jesus.

So the Romans invented the concept of baking the cake and eating it too. They commit murder, never serve justice, and then glorify their act of murder in the name of serving justice for humanity. They tell christians that they killed Jesus for their own good and the christians believe it...they eat it all up....and they even wear a cross on their chest to condone the murder of Jesus.

If you would ask me about an episode where justice have not been served, I can't find an example better than the life and death of Jesus. Man didn't serve justice on that occasion and god will show man where man went wrong.

 

[Bridge]

This post makes absolutely no sense in the big picture of things-- but at the very least it is refreshing to see someone blame the Romans instead of the Jews.

They tell christians that they killed Jesus for their own good and the christians believe it...they eat it all up....and they even wear a cross on their chest to condone the murder of Jesus.

In a sense he did die for their own good...for their salvation. Your caricature of Jesus' death and of Christians in general contradicts all he lived and died for. I mistakenly thought this post would be aimed at uncovering some controversy or mystery but it's just another personal grudge against Christianity....boring.

 

[Flores]

Originally posted by Bridge
In a sense he did die for their own good...for their salvation. Your caricature of Jesus' death and of Christians in general contradicts all he lived and died for. I mistakenly thought this post would be aimed at uncovering some controversy or mystery but it's just another personal grudge against Christianity....boring.

I see another soul is not interested in serving justice. For god sake, we put people to death everyday for killing average Joe. This is Jesus we are talking about, and you don't even want to warrant an investigation. Bridge is suggesting we close the murder case on the basis of ?
1- Jesus wanted to die for us....so the Roman commited a mercy killing.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Originally posted by Flores
I see another soul is not interested in serving justice. For god sake, we put people to death everyday for killing average Joe. This is Jesus we are talking about, and you don't even want to warrant an investigation. Bridge is suggesting we close the murder case on the basis of ? 1- Jesus wanted to die for us....so the Roman commited a mercy killing.

Hi, Flo: Have you ever noticed that when any question or theory comes up about Jesus's crucifixion and death, Xians get all bent outta shape? It really doesn't matter to them WHO may have killed JC, all they care about is they think he died (for them!).

Conveniently, there was this guy, Jesus Barabbas, who coincidently as you know from your native language means "Son of the Father" or "the father's son." It didn't mean "king" or "ruler" of the Jews. So when Pilate asked the croud whom they wanted to be freed, and supposedly they yelled "Bar-Abbas," the Jesus we know was set free. Xians will argue until they're blue in the face. In the medium of sciforums, they will argue until their fingers are blue, but Jesus didn't die on a cross. He hightailed it outta there with the wife and kids.

My question is this: What do you think all the believing Xians will do when the truth is uncovered that JC didn't actually die for anyone? The Vatican knows the truth, but they've been hiding it for at least 1600 years.

I've done everything I know how to convince Xians of this myth. Now, I'm just gonna sit back and watch the truth unfold and laugh at them for their stupidity. I just wonder how many of them will take the Jim Jones bus outta here when they find they've not been saved at all!

 

[Flores]

I agree MW,
I don't believe that Jesus was crucified based on the Quran, but more accurately, I'd like to take the position of saying, I don't know how Jesus really died, because I feel there is very weak evidance to how Jesus died.

Now assuming that jesus was crucified, which is probably is not true, but believed by many, my question is, why wasn't the murder of the most important person in christian faith not investigation, brought to trial, and served by justice. Considering that the Christians are one of the groups that always support the death penalty.

 

[jcarl]

Re: Jesus trialQ

Originally posted by Flores
Come on guys. Supposidly a murder was commited, and no one was put on a trial. Not any murder that I speak of, but the murder of the most important man in history. Jesus Christ.

He was viewed as a blasphemer by the Pharisees, which constituted death, and was viewed as a threat by the Romans. He died a criminal's death because he was viewed as one.

Why didn't we have a trial for the murder. I thought the christian god said thou shall not kill, and an eye for eye. How can a god that said thou shall not kill, condone the savage murder via a torturing cross to an innocent man? Who died in the place of Jesus..Who died for killing Jesus? Who killed Jesus and got away with it?

No one got away with it. Those guys are probably dead now. They obviously didn't except Christ as their savior, so they are now facing eternal punishment. They didn't get away with it, when they died Hell was waiting for them.

No one man could stand up and say the truth, I killed Jesus.

Indeed!! We are sinful creatures and as such deserved death. But Jesus came that we may have life more abundantly(aka forever). He was the sacrificial lamb that covered everyones sins. Why people don't accept that pardon from eternal death is beyond me.

So the Romans invented the concept of baking the cake and eating it too. They commit murder, never serve justice, and then glorify their act of murder in the name of serving justice for humanity. They tell christians that they killed Jesus for their own good and the christians believe it...they eat it all up....and they even wear a cross on their chest to condone the murder of Jesus.

We wear the cross as a symbol of our forgiveness. Without the cross we have no chance of being in the prescence of God(heaven) The shedding of blood was necessary for our transgressions. A perfect(blameless) sacrifice was needed. So we couldn't be the sacrifice; Leaving one alternative: God, which incarnate is Jesus Christ.


ORINGALLY POSTED By: Medicine WOman:

have you ever noticed that when any question or theory comes up about Jesus's crucifixion and death, Xians get all bent outta shape?

Without the cross we are not saved. Period.

Conveniently, there was this guy, Jesus Barabbas, who coincidently as you know from your native language means "Son of the Father" or "the father's son." It didn't mean "king" or "ruler" of the Jews.

So when Pilate asked the croud whom they wanted to be freed, and supposedly they yelled "Bar-Abbas," the Jesus we know was set free.

Had they wanted Jesus Christ, they would have said, give us Jesus who is called the Christ.

I've done everything I know how to convince Xians of this myth. Now, I'm just gonna sit back and watch the truth unfold and laugh at them for their stupidity.

Good. Hope you're right.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Originally posted by Flores
I agree MW,
I don't believe that Jesus was crucified based on the Quran, but more accurately, I'd like to take the position of saying, I don't know how Jesus really died, because I feel there is very weak evidance to how Jesus died.

Now assuming that jesus was crucified, which is probably is not true, but believed by many, my question is, why wasn't the murder of the most important person in christian faith not investigation, brought to trial, and served by justice. Considering that the Christians are one of the groups that always support the death penalty.

Very good observation, Flores! Yes, Xians don't want to investigate what they believe to be the basis of their "salvation." They think it's better to leave well enough alone. If they dared to investigate, that would somehow jeopardize their eternal life. You see, to Xians, Jesus's birth, crucifixion, death and resurrection, was foretold in the OT (although Jewish scholars don't find ANY references to Jesus in the OT). Let me put it this way: You buy an insurance policy on yourself with your husband and children as beneficiaries. Let's say for hypothetical purposes, you end up in a road rage accident and die. Your husband and children cash in your policy and are living off of the money for the rest of their lives. Many years later, do you think your husband and children would investigate the actual accident to see if it could have been prevented? I don't think so. Maybe this isn't a good example, but it's all I could think of.

Yes, the written accounts of Jesus' death by crucifixion are ambiguous. No one who wrote witnessed the crucifixion. The word "resurrection" was mistranslated and should read "resuscitated" according to Biblical scholars. I doubt that Jesus was ever on the cross, but if he was, he was replaced by a stand-in, possibly Bar-Abbas or someone else. Therefore, I believe Jesus led a good life outside of his homeland. He was a prominent lecturer throughout Asia, and some believe he died in India. They have erected many shrines to Jesus and "his mother." I think some of those shrines and apparitions of "Mary" were actually of M. Magdalena and not Jesus's mother. In any event, I think Jesus led a very active life as a spiritual philosopher and no doubt had many more years to enjoy them. He finally retired in Septimania (the "seven heads" in Revelations), and M. Magdalena continued his spiritual mission until her death. As rumor would have it, Jesus was affiliated with Egyptian mythology as the last Pharaoh and M. Magdalena was believed to be a Goddess ala Isis. Since Jesus wasn't a Xian, it's very possible that he leaned more toward the faith of Abraham/Ibrahim and was a Rabbi.

 

[okinrus]

<i><b>
Of course, you'll recite the most famous brain washed answer and say, Jesus died for all of us? well, that's what the Roman Catholics have taught you and your fathers for years. To elude justice, the Romans have decided to distribute punichment to the entire humanity. Instead of commiting to the murder of Jesus and serving the law, now we all have to pay for the murder. The Romans have even attached the punichment to young innocent babies. All for what? Coward Romans can't take the blame. No one man could stand up and say the truth, I killed Jesus.
</b></i>
The Roman goverment persecuted christians for 200 or more years. Needless to say, there were only Catholics and not Roman Catholics because this was before the schism. I'm confused by what you mean by attaching the punishment to babies. If this a referance to original sin, then the Church believes that it caused by an abstance of original grace due to the fall of Adam. The only reason why you would grace though is because of Jesus.

<i><b>
So the Romans invented the concept of baking the cake and eating it too. </b></i>
No, this was done by the Jews as well. Is this a referance to the Eucharist or something else?

<i><b>
They commit murder, never serve justice, and then glorify their act of murder in the name of serving justice for humanity. They tell christians that they killed Jesus for their own good and the christians believe it...they eat it all up....and they even wear a cross on their chest to condone the murder of Jesus.</b></i>
All sin led to the death of Jesus.

<i><b>
No one got away with it. Those guys are probably dead now. They obviously didn't except Christ as their savior, so they are now facing eternal punishment. They didn't get away with it, when they died Hell was waiting for them.</b></i>
Legend is that the one who thrust the spear into Jesus and later proclaimed that Jesus was truely the Son of God became a christian.

 

[Flores]

Originally posted by okinrus
[BLegend is that the one who thrust the spear into Jesus and later proclaimed that Jesus was truely the Son of God became a christian. [/B]

Such demented evil love that I want no part of.

How can you believe in this garbage?

I would never thrust a spear into Jesus and then say he's a son of god. I would die in Jesus place if I can while saying that I attest to the one god in heaven...If I was back then, I would have made a human shield with my own self and young kids to take the torture off Jesus....because I truly love Jesus....not selfish love to stand and watch or even thurst a spear in the name that Jesus is dying for me. Christians don't understand the meaning of the word love and sacrifice......it shows in their family structures....They say they love their parents as they ignore them and throw them to senior homes, and they say they love Jesus and stand there and watch him die for their purposes.

 

[Flores]

Re: Re: Jesus trialQ

Originally posted by jcarl

A perfect(blameless) sacrifice was needed. So we couldn't be the sacrifice; Leaving one alternative: God, which incarnate is Jesus Christ.

Brings back memory of the Egyptians that used to throw a perfect innocent virgin beautifull women to the crocodiles of the river Nile to please the Nile. Yeah, they too believed that without the innocent women death, the Nile is not going to save them.

Silly me was starting to believe that humans intelligence and morals have evolved.

 

[guthrie]

"I would never thrust a spear into Jesus and then say he's a son of god. I would die in Jesus place if I can while saying that I attest to the one god in heaven...If I was back then, I would have made a human shield with my own self and young kids to take the torture off Jesus"

And of course, you checked with the children first that they wanted to die instead of Jesus? Yet allegedly even God abandoned Jesus to his death, so why shoudl you get in the way? Why not consider that the most inspiring loving god is one that will die for you, rather than one that demands your sacrifice to them?


"because I truly love Jesus....not selfish love to stand and watch or even thurst a spear in the name that Jesus is dying for me. Christians don't understand the meaning of the word love and sacrifice......it shows in their family structures....They say they love their parents as they ignore them and throw them to senior homes, and they say they love Jesus and stand there and watch him die for their purposes."

Bla blah blah. Yes, ive seen unchristian christians, christian christians, christian unchristians etc. Big deal. your just getting all hot and bothered now and your prejudices are showing.

 

[Flores]

Originally posted by guthrie
[Byour just getting all hot [/B]

Do you have a problem with hot women?

 

[Cowboy]

Originally posted by Flores
Now assuming that jesus was crucified, which is probably is not true, but believed by many, my question is, why wasn't the murder of the most important person in christian faith not investigation, brought to trial, and served by justice. Considering that the Christians are one of the groups that always support the death penalty.

This whole premise is flawed.

Assuming that Jesus actually existed, at the time he was killed Rome was not yet a Christian nation/empire. It was a pagan nation/empire that would in the future entertain its citizens by throwing Christians to the lions.

Christians had no influence and were not well-liked, so there is no reason to believe that they would have the power to force the pagan government to conduct a trial or hold a trial of their own.

 

[guthrie]

Or consider more that there werent many actual christians about at the time, just lots of Jews of different denominations, but apart from that, yes, its unlikely they coudl have persuaded Pilate to kill him. Furthermore, the jewish Sanhedrin, i think it was, tht wanted to kill him, shouldnt meet during the passover. Also it had the power to condemn to death by stoning, so why get the Romans to kill him by cricifixion?

"Do you have a problem with hot women?"

Depends on the sitation. If we're standing on thin ice at the time, then yes.

 

[Flores]

Originally posted by Galt
This whole premise is flawed.

Not really.

Originally posted by Galt
Assuming that Jesus actually existed, at the time he was killed Rome was not yet a Christian nation/empire. It was a pagan nation/empire that would in the future entertain its citizens by throwing Christians to the lions.

True, but it later adopted christianity and it seems that the first task of business should have been to hold a fair trial for Jesus and clear the circumstances of his death. Instead they made up a sacrificial lamb story and exonorated themselves.

Originally posted by Galt
Christians had no influence and were not well-liked, so there is no reason to believe that they would have the power to force the pagan government to conduct a trial or hold a trial of their own.

That same pagan government is the entity that shaped and controlled the christian religion from conception till this day.

 

[davewhite04]

Jews had near zero rights at the time of Jesus's crucifiction, if his mother had appealed against the death, she would have probably been crucified.

And the christians that post dated Jesus had learnt that he had died for there sins, so why would they kick up a fuss?

This topic is senseless. Then I read this...

Originally posted by Medicine*Woman
M. Magdalena was believed to be a Goddess ala Isis.

I presume (correct me if I'm wrong) you're referring to Mary Magdalene, the woman that had seven demons cast out of her by Jesus! A goddess, wonders never cease.

Dave

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Originally posted by okinrus
----------
Legend is that the one who thrust the spear into Jesus and later proclaimed that Jesus was truely the Son of God became a christian.
----------
M*W: Yes, this was what was written, but how can we really know if it the truth? There's no way of knowing since it was written decades and decades afterward by non-eyewitnesses. Secondly, if I were to take a lance and stick it up Saddam Hussein's ass would I then proclaim that I'm an Iraqi terrorist? Same shit, different century.

 

[Cowboy]

Originally posted by Flores
Not really.

Yes really.

Originally posted by Flores
True, but it later adopted christianity and it seems that the first task of business should have been to hold a fair trial for Jesus and clear the circumstances of his death. Instead they made up a sacrificial lamb story and exonorated themselves.

Jesus - assuming he lived and died in the manner described in the Bible - was killed circa 30 AD.

Christianity wasn't even legal in the Roman Empire until the beginning of the fourth century.

The Roman Empire didn't become officially Christian until the end of the fourth century.

So, roughly 350 years after the death of Jesus, when everyone involved had probably been dead for three centuries or so, you expect the Christian government of Rome to be able to conduct a fair and impartial trial to clear things up?

Originally posted by Flores
That same pagan government is the entity that shaped and controlled the christian religion from conception till this day.

Irrelevant.

 

[Flores]

Originally posted by Galt
Jesus - assuming he lived and died in the manner described in the Bible - was killed circa 30 AD.

Christianity wasn't even legal in the Roman Empire until the beginning of the fourth century.

The Roman Empire didn't become officially Christian until the end of the fourth century.

So, roughly 350 years after the death of Jesus, when everyone involved had probably been dead for three centuries or so, you expect the Christian government of Rome to be able to conduct a fair and impartial trial to clear things up?

Absolutely and it should be first order of business before they start building shrines on top of lies and deciet. I respect your opinion though to ignore the past and make up lies about it, it's much easier and probably prettier to cover up lies instead of adressing them. Do you know what the word Kafir in arabic mean...It means a person who covers up the truth. A kafir is not an ignorant person, it's a very knowledgable person who covers up fact. I would do things differently though, because to me it's of out most important to clear up misconceptions before adopting them.

Originally posted by Galt
Irrelevant.

Absolutely, truth seems to be irrelevant to you

 

[Cowboy]

Originally posted by Flores
Absolutely and it should be first order of business before they start building shrines on top of lies and deciet. I respect your opinion though to ignore the past and make up lies about it, it's much easier and probably prettier to cover up lies instead of adressing them. Do you know what the word Kafir in arabic mean...It means a person who covers up the truth. A kafir is not an ignorant person, it's a very knowledgable person who covers up fact. I would do things differently though, because to me it's of out most important to clear up misconceptions before adopting them.

So how, after nearly four centuries of oppressing and murdering Christians, would there be any untainted evidence or impartial 350 year old witnesses to ensure a fair and accurate trial/investigation? And considering that this trial/investigation would be conducted by a Christian theocracy, it probably wouldn't be fair and accurate even if it were possible to find said evidence and witnesses, which it wasn't.

The only people who knew for sure what happened were dead long before it was even legal to be a Christian in Rome. You ask the impossible and then criticize Christians for being unable to meet your expectations.

Originally posted by Flores
Absolutely, truth seems to be irrelevant to you

I don't know enough about Christianity to know if it is true or not, but examples of pagan influences in Christianity have no relevance to the inability to conduct a fair, impartial and accurate trial/investigation on the killing of Jesus.