Jesus, Real or Invented

[OliverJ]

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M*W: OliverJ, look upward on this thread to ConsequentAtheist's post. He provides the link. There are some references in the "other" gospels of Thomas, Philip, Thecla and Mary Magdalene, that were not included when the NT was compiled. Remember, these people who claimed to have known Jesus were Jews who followed Jesus and the Torah and Tanakh. Paul who wrote most of the NT and commissioned the gospels to be written by M, M, & L, with the possible exception of John, never knew Jesus. There are also some recent scholarly theories that "John" who allegedly wrote the gospel and Revelations, was possibly the "beloved disciple" Mary Magdalene. When deciphering Revelations, a lot of arrows point to her.

Yes , but the name Jesus was never discovered in the Dead Sea Scrolls right ?

 

[antifreeze]

I'm not exactly a bible scholar, but didn't he supposedly say something to the effect of "I am the light, I am the way."? If so, I'd say that brings his sanity into question.

i think its 22:13 revelations; "i am the alpha and the omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end." sounds awesome, unless you actually say it.

as far as walking on water goes, maybe he was standing on a sandbar one morning, and some apostle woke up, saw him, and thought he was actually walking on water.

so why not attribute the message to our own natural creativity and compassion rather than try to hide it in mythology or attribute it to imaginary super beings?

because then it is just another jackass telling you how to live your life. but if it's god, then wow...i mean, it's god. it must be the right way mustn't it? see, it's a matter of legitimacy.

 

[SnakeLord]

It has come to my attention that there are some people in this forum that believe that Jesus never lived. I'm am very curious about their answers and opinions to these following questions:

Well it all comes down to evidence I guess. In this instance all we have to go by are several texts and "letters" written in one book and one book only. How can it be that a 'miracle maker' and mini-god is not abundant in all manner of other writing from that time?

Even if he did exist, I think modern day folk are overly biased about whether he was god or not. Christians often talk to me about these people being "wtinesses", and yet completely ignore the majority of would be witnesses who quite distinctly did not agree that Jesus was anything special. People argue that Paul and his buddies were there and would not lie yada yada, but then why not trust the other witnesses who disagree and quite clearly outnumber the witnesses who were for Jesus?

- If the Catholic Church invented Jesus to further their own agenda, why would they publish a lie that condemns their actions? (As in the inquisition and the cruzades)

There wouldn't have been a 'catholic church' at the very moment of the invention of jesus. Look at it from a political standpoint.. The jews had their very own god, who protected them, killed their enemies, and so on. In all essence, at that time god would have been a trademark of the jewish people.

What better political move to completely disrupt the jews than to create a 'new god' that ended up no longer being a god of the jews because those jews were portrayed as the killer of their very own god - and as such get doomed to hellfire for it?

Personally I think it's brilliant. "Hey look, they have their very own god - let's make a mini-version of it, then have them kill him and be abandoned by their very own god".

Bloody superb.

Once the "lie" formed into a religious culture, the churches, (those in power), could do and say anything to justify their actions. You could argue with them that the bible says "do not kill", but then they'd just point out another passage that says its ok as long as god's in charge.

- Even if Jesus never lived, isn't the message what is important?

No more so than any other important message made in the entire history of mankind. We can even go so far back as the Code of Hammurabi, which vastly predates the bible and is seen as the origins of the "rules" shown in Exodus, Leviticus etc. Ever since the dawn of mankind, there have been important messages such as thou shalt not kill.. jesus was no different.

- Could anyone point out a negative, propagandist, inflammatory, or otherwise ill-conceived quote of Jesus in the bible? (I don't mean quotes from New Testament, or any testament for that matter, I mean Jesus' words)

"Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother..." (Matthew 10:34)

or "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26)

 

[Joeman]

Yes , but the name Jesus was never discovered in the Dead Sea Scrolls right ?

umm....the name Jesus isn't mentioned in old testament at all. That's why.

 

[Enigma'07]

The name wasn't, but the person he was is.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Yes , but the name Jesus was never discovered in the Dead Sea Scrolls right ?

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M*W: Honestly, dear, I'm not that familiar with the DSS. I have skimmed through the Gospel of Mary Magdalene, and she does mention Jesus as does Peter. The question I have, was The G of MM found with the DSS? Ollie, you might be interested in the website concerning Jesus & MM at www.rennes-le-chateau.com
~ One in Spirit ~ M*W

 

[rel]

Real person, stories and his life is made up and no one can answer on his virgin mother birth to him for whatever reason heck she coulda been raped and kept it a secret

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Real person, stories and his life is made up and no one can answer on his virgin mother birth to him for whatever reason heck she coulda been raped and kept it a secret

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M*W: Welcome, rel, and thanks for your post. I agree with you. I believe there was a Rabbi Jesus or Yeshua as he was probably called. But whatever happened to Immanuel? I've been reading some non-Catholic books about Mary and the "virgin birth." There's certainly more about it than what the NT says. I've learned more about Jesus by reading outside the Bible. There are two schools of thought -- he either existed or he was just a myth. Funny that none of his contemporaries ever mentioned him in their writings! That dying demigod savior myth was popular long before the time of Jesus. When Jesus lived, he wasn't anyone special. In fact, I don't believe he died on the cross. That was pure myth about a simple Rabbi.