Jesus lies?

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Well, the tone of the Gospels is very...apocalyptic. If you take the words in the New Testament as being Jesus' actual ideology, then yeah, he claims that the world would end soon and that he would be the new saviour of the world.
Obviously, that didn't happen. So, later texts and doctrines fiddled with the meaning of that to be more general or futurist about it. Notably, the Book of Revelation makes the apocalypse out to be some event in an indiscernible future, the precise time of which only god could know. Of course, Revelation also has features of a satire on Roman society and government. So, it has multiple possible interpretations.

I don't view Jesus' words in the NT as the words of the historical Jesus. But, I'm betting they carry the gist of the historical figure's ideology. In that case, it wasn't that uncommon; numerous other messiah claimants had very apocalyptic beliefs. Apocalyptic fervour was somewhat of a trend in early first century Judaea.
Quite understandable under the circumstances. Think of it like this: your homeland, independent for quite some time, has been placed under the authority of a brutal, repressive dictatorship. Worse, it shows no signs whatsoever of being displaced by a more pro-Judaean foreign army; so, liberation via foreign aid is out of the question, and your own country's military is completely gone. The only saving grace you can hope for is that the world ends, taking this brutal oppressor with it.
 
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Saint said:
He told lies or his disciples told lies about him?
Or, he could be true?
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Many teachers are misinterpreted, misquoted, etc....

i like to put myself in the midst of the conversations when reading the bible (any theological writings) and if i was that person and maintained the integrity of being honest rather than 'self preserving'

meaning the 'teachers' are oooosually not takers; they don't do what they do to make themselves 'feel good' or to be approved of or even claim to be God

they do what they do for others to know truth equally

see these conficts of what many believe and what jesus said:

matthew 16:20

Then did he charge his disciples that they may say to no one that he is Jesus the Christ.

self explanitory; he was not the 'last'

Mark 10: 17

And as he is going forth into the way, one having run and having kneeled to him, was questioning him, `Good teacher, what may I do, that life age-during I may inherit?'

18And Jesus said to him, `Why me dost thou call good? no one [is] good except One -- God;

19the commands thou hast known: Thou mayest not commit adultery, Thou mayest do no murder, Thou mayest not steal, Thou mayest not bear false witness, Thou mayest not defraud, Honour thy father and mother.'



to me that is the real deal: it implies HE SAID, why call me GOOD (he is not god), and follow the rules (notice there are no homage rules (these are the injil, new laws) in which to do 'good', as responsible to existence (God), then homage is pure by each persons way of life)


John 14: 15

`If ye love me, my commands keep,

16and I will ask the Father, and another Comforter He will give to you, that he may remain with you -- to the age;

17the Spirit of truth, whom the world is not able to receive, because it doth not behold him, nor know him, and ye know him, because he doth remain with you, and shall be in you.


the bringer of light, the last

the carrier of the 'name'

and that is the same thing most every religion on earth has been suggesting

be honest/fair/ compassionate (do not do to others what you do not want done to you)

and await the day of 'understanding' (keep an ear to the ground and support the truth for the good of all; the future)


all basic common sense

any who truly care can apply all the above without any need of ever having to hold onto anything that does not make sense

for example; being created from the dust by magic or that i was randomly uncertainly and chaotically evolved from atoms that are just strings in bent space in who knows which dimension; are all BS

Point is both are a wee bit off and i say, the truth is found by observing 'light' (electromagnetic energy) as the energy between all mass; and is proven by defining 'life' itself.

it's a light thing!
 
Saint said:
He told lies or his disciples told lies about him?
Or, he could be true?
Click to expand...

If I recall correctly he said he'd save our souls, not our world. I also recall something about an Armegeddon...a prediction of the world's end. Where and when do you learn of him saying he'd save the world...:confused:
 
i believe that is from the 'died for sins' idea (religious belief "created" by them after jesus)

for example a kid once asked:

If Jesus died for our sins; what happens now? He didn't stay dead.
 
bishadi said:
i believe that is from the 'died for sins' idea (religious belief "created" by them after jesus)

for example a kid once asked:

If jesus died for our sins; what happens now? He didn't stay dead.
Click to expand...

that kid was me!!!
 
Jozen-Bo said:
If I recall correctly he said he'd save our souls, not our world. I also recall something about an Armegeddon...a prediction of the world's end. Where and when do you learn of him saying he'd save the world...:confused:
Click to expand...


Armegeddon, and Revelations are not teachings of Jesus, they have more to do with Gnosticism than Thomas Christians, and New Testament Fundamentalist.
 
When Jesus said "he" or "myself", those words did not mean what we think they mean. He had transcended the individual ego, so what he meant was someone who has understood this and gone through the same transformation. He wasn't necessarily lying, but he was exaggerating for effect. In the past, the idea that you would not fabricate details or exaggerate claims was unthinkable. You wrote to entertain and enthrall, not to report factually.
 
Buffalo Roam said:
...Revelations are not teachings of Jesus, they have more to do with Gnosticism...
Click to expand...
While not the teachings of the historical Jesus, Revelations was an integral part of Christian canon very early on. St. John of Patmos wrote it, and it had nothing to do with Gnosticism.
The two main theories of its meaning are 1) it was intended as a scathing satire on Roman Imperial government and society, or 2) it was intended to retool the apocalyptic tone of Jesus' teachings when it became apparent that the world was not going to end in the lifetimes of the apostles.
 
Wrong, actually.

Jesus NEVER said he would return while his followers were still alive, or within one lifetime. I challenge anyone to find such a quote. Instead what he said is this:


20Peter turned and saw that the disciple whom Jesus loved was following them. (This was the one who had leaned back against Jesus at the supper and had said, "Lord, who is going to betray you?") 21When Peter saw him, he asked, "Lord, what about him?"

22Jesus answered, "If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me." 23Because of this, the rumor spread among the brothers that this disciple would not die. But Jesus did not say that he would not die; he only said, "If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you?"


I fail to see a lie anywhere in this passage. If there is another in the bible, or any other reliable document where Jesus is quoted, I'd like to see it.
 
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