Don't bother reading this. If you're not already in this thread, stay out. Oh damn it I just noticed Tiassa quoted the shit out of me.
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It's in our Nature
- Thread starter Betrayer0fHope
- Start date
Now that's a spicy meatball
You're kidding, right?
I mean, sure, I find the rest of your post somewhat preposterous, but that part is striking.
And this part-
-is damn near actually being funny.
But the setup is a bit long for the punch line.
Betrayer0fHope said:
You're kidding, right?
I mean, sure, I find the rest of your post somewhat preposterous, but that part is striking.
And this part-
-is damn near actually being funny.
But the setup is a bit long for the punch line.
Pandaemoni
Valued Senior Member
I feel that this topic gets discussed a lot here...
There are a two issues with the initial post:
First, you mention the rights of the mother and the father. You forgot to mention the rights of the child after it is born. The reason father's must pay child support is *not* that the mother has more rights, but that the child has a brand new bundle of rights that spring into existence (as far as the law is concerned) when the child is born. The *mother* is just as legally obligated to care for the child, it just so happens that men work more and tend to earn more than women. That results is a certain bias for paternal child support payments and material provision of parental oversight. Economically speaking, that provision of services is every bit as much a contribution as the mere provision of money.
Second, the answer to the whole dilemma, it seems to me, its "life in unfair, grow up, man up, and get used to it." There are biological differences than make a pregnancy harder on a woman than on a man, and there are no clearly better allocations of rights than the ones we presently have. Giving the man the right to order the woman to bear a child, or force her to get surgery to abort it (because non-surgical abortions tend to be controversial, at least in the U.S.) is far harsher physically than the reverse. Emotionally speaking, the burdens on the man and woman may be similar (but even there hormonal shifts during pregnancy, even that rings hollow to me), but physically it is all one-sided.
So the breakdown of burdens in connection with a pregnancy or abortion is:
Men: Emotional and Economic
Women: Emotional, Economic and Physical
So, of course women will get greater deference, since they bear a disproportionate burden.
There are a two issues with the initial post:
First, you mention the rights of the mother and the father. You forgot to mention the rights of the child after it is born. The reason father's must pay child support is *not* that the mother has more rights, but that the child has a brand new bundle of rights that spring into existence (as far as the law is concerned) when the child is born. The *mother* is just as legally obligated to care for the child, it just so happens that men work more and tend to earn more than women. That results is a certain bias for paternal child support payments and material provision of parental oversight. Economically speaking, that provision of services is every bit as much a contribution as the mere provision of money.
Second, the answer to the whole dilemma, it seems to me, its "life in unfair, grow up, man up, and get used to it." There are biological differences than make a pregnancy harder on a woman than on a man, and there are no clearly better allocations of rights than the ones we presently have. Giving the man the right to order the woman to bear a child, or force her to get surgery to abort it (because non-surgical abortions tend to be controversial, at least in the U.S.) is far harsher physically than the reverse. Emotionally speaking, the burdens on the man and woman may be similar (but even there hormonal shifts during pregnancy, even that rings hollow to me), but physically it is all one-sided.
So the breakdown of burdens in connection with a pregnancy or abortion is:
Men: Emotional and Economic
Women: Emotional, Economic and Physical
So, of course women will get greater deference, since they bear a disproportionate burden.
I'm for allowing the father to give up all rights at any time of legal abortion. I am not for forcing a woman give birth or have an abortion. The only exrta rights in this situation should be the womans ability to have or not have an abortion. She should not be able to force the biological father who wanted an abortion to pay child support.
Use a rubber
I would think they are just as responsible as women because if men can't keep their zippers shut and their penis to themselves, they are at least half responsible for any child a woman they fuck produces. The problem lies in the fact that women will take care of the illegitimate child but the man seems to just fade into the crowd, never wanting to provide any support at all. Very irresponsible.
A rubber is irrelevant here, because it assumes they didn't use one and how we deal with situation following it. People have a right to change their minds about children, even after pregnancy.
Hmm yes, that does seem a tad crazy. I'm not quite sure what I was thinking, just generally angry at society maybe. But I still don't want to pay fucking child support damn it.
No! A man should not be at as much fault as the woman! :bawl:
Hmm yes, that does seem a tad crazy. I'm not quite sure what I was thinking, just generally angry at society maybe. But I still don't want to pay fucking child support damn it.
don't worry ... you'll probably never get laid any way :xctd:
If a man doesn't screw a woman she won't get pregnant will she? So that means men are just as much to blame if not more at times for they can stop themselves if they have self control.
Am I the only one who found the OP incomprehensible?
Nah, it definitely was not well thought out. I blame the fact that it was some 2 in the morning, but maybe it was that I am 15, and a boy, too. Anyways, the thing I shouted at Cosmic is the main point of this thread, the other stuff is just me being crazy. To Cosmic: Of course we blame the man. He did, after all, bang that chick. But the woman clearly is more responsible for the situation and, I guess, deserves more rights. A man cannot be held accountable for his actions in these situations because he IS a man. The crazy old man you are you should know this
.talking of "rights" divorced from discussions of "obligational duty" is a shoreless ocean because no one is satisfied
The OP talked about responsibility. I guess one irresponsible act deserves another.
Err... if she has an abortion, there'll be no child support. You're not making sense.
In other words, you want a free ride for men to practice unsafe sex without consequences. Ok, I get it. And you're a man, of course. You'd have to be.
Have you looked into how much money is involved, compared to the actual costs of raising a child? I don't think you have. Child support is a pittance, and dead-beat dads often don't pay it anyway.
So, these girls just magically "get pregnant", do they? Do they rub up against trees and that's how it happens?
Yeah, and we shouldn't fault murderers for having poor impulse control either. Let them all go free, I say!
Explain to me why the woman is clearly more responsible.
If a woman wants child support from the guy who got cold feet and left after he had unprotected sex with her and a pregnancy resulted, then she shouldn't be held accountable for that. After all, she IS a woman, and women should always get what they want, just like men. Right? Otherwise, it just wouldn't be fair.
You can't advocate responsibilities for one of two equal parties and not the other. Or rights.
You misunderstood something I said, but it was so retarded that I'll leave it that way(what I said, not what you said). Anyways, men should not be faulted for having many kids because there is no consequence for a man to have sex with a woman, and I believe this is why there is a noticeable difference between men and women's willingness to engage in intercourse. So, if all men want to have sex much more than a woman does, for genetic reasons, how could it be fair to punish/treat them equally? We don't treat murderers with "poor impulse control" the same as we do with normal murderers, and although the parallel is gruesome, there is a parallel.