Isn't religion a bit stupid?

Quetzalcoatl was a Teotihuacan god adopted by the Aztecs and Toltecs. Perhaps the Teotihuacanoes adopted it from elsewhere. But it was a war god or god of power and conquest and was depicted as a "feathered serpent," as visitors to the Teotihuacan Valley in Mexico can see on one of the most enigmatic pyramids in Mesoamerica. In this pyramid are the sacrifices of over 200 warriors, probably for the structure's dedication or re-dedication.

Why is this bit of Mesoamerican history on-topic? Because we can see first-hand and with an objective eye the "stupidity" of religion. I use that term in quotes since I don't actually think religion is "stupid" in the literal sense, but it is an illogical system of beliefs that begin for logical reasons when you consider the earliest beliefs of a culture and trace their evolution as a religion.

In Mesoamerican cultures, the god Quetzalcoatl was considered to be a christ-like figure. He was predicted to return; was the son of the primary deities; tempted by the evils of Tezcatlipoca; etc. Quetzalcoatl dominated Mesoamerican culture prior to the Spanish Conquest in the same way that Jesus and Mohammed dominate contemporary cultures. Rulers make attempts to identify with figures like this in order to motivate public opinion.

If others of the thread are interested, we can look further at ancient religions to draw comparissons and contrasts to contemporary religions and further look for the "stupidity." But bear in mind that by "stupid," I'll only agree to the colloquial definition of "illogical."
 
Hi

As an astronmy/mahts major, I have to say even more stupid than religion is cosmlology (astrophysical cosmology). In order to keep the theory of the Big bang true many exotic particles have been invented like dark matter, dark energy and even anti-gravity. Now all of these are used as proofs of the Big Bang theory, but here we run into a nice circular argument because the proof of all these particles is they need to be there because the Big Bang did happen.
See also attached copy of www.cosmologystatement.org

An Open Letter to the Scientific Community
cosmologystatement.org

(Published in New Scientist, May 22, 2004)

The big bang today relies on a growing number of hypothetical entities, things that we have never observed-- inflation, dark matter and dark energy are the most prominent examples. Without them, there would be a fatal contradiction between the observations made by astronomers and the predictions of the big bang theory. In no other field of physics would this continual recourse to new hypothetical objects be accepted as a way of bridging the gap between theory and observation. It would, at the least, raise serious questions about the validity of the underlying theory.

But the big bang theory can't survive without these fudge factors. Without the hypothetical inflation field, the big bang does not predict the smooth, isotropic cosmic background radiation that is observed, because there would be no way for parts of the universe that are now more than a few degrees away in the sky to come to the same temperature and thus emit the same amount of microwave radiation.

Without some kind of dark matter, unlike any that we have observed on Earth despite 20 years of experiments, big-bang theory makes contradictory predictions for the density of matter in the universe. Inflation requires a density 20 times larger than that implied by big bang nucleosynthesis, the theory's explanation of the origin of the light elements. And without dark energy, the theory predicts that the universe is only about 8 billion years old, which is billions of years younger than the age of many stars in our galaxy.

What is more, the big bang theory can boast of no quantitative predictions that have subsequently been validated by observation. The successes claimed by the theory's supporters consist of its ability to retrospectively fit observations with a steadily increasing array of adjustable parameters, just as the old Earth-centered cosmology of Ptolemy needed layer upon layer of epicycles.

Yet the big bang is not the only framework available for understanding the history of the universe. Plasma cosmology and the steady-state model both hypothesize an evolving universe without beginning or end. These and other alternative approaches can also explain the basic phenomena of the cosmos, including the abundances of light elements, the generation of large-scale structure, the cosmic background radiation, and how the redshift of far-away galaxies increases with distance. They have even predicted new phenomena that were subsequently observed, something the big bang has failed to do.

Supporters of the big bang theory may retort that these theories do not explain every cosmological observation. But that is scarcely surprising, as their development has been severely hampered by a complete lack of funding. Indeed, such questions and alternatives cannot even now be freely discussed and examined. An open exchange of ideas is lacking in most mainstream conferences. Whereas Richard Feynman could say that "science is the culture of doubt", in cosmology today doubt and dissent are not tolerated, and young scientists learn to remain silent if they have something negative to say about the standard big bang model. Those who doubt the big bang fear that saying so will cost them their funding.

Even observations are now interpreted through this biased filter, judged right or wrong depending on whether or not they support the big bang. So discordant data on red shifts, lithium and helium abundances, and galaxy distribution, among other topics, are ignored or ridiculed. This reflects a growing dogmatic mindset that is alien to the spirit of free scientific inquiry.

Today, virtually all financial and experimental resources in cosmology are devoted to big bang studies. Funding comes from only a few sources, and all the peer-review committees that control them are dominated by supporters of the big bang. As a result, the dominance of the big bang within the field has become self-sustaining, irrespective of the scientific validity of the theory.

Giving support only to projects within the big bang framework undermines a fundamental element of the scientific method -- the constant testing of theory against observation. Such a restriction makes unbiased discussion and research impossible. To redress this, we urge those agencies that fund work in cosmology to set aside a significant fraction of their funding for investigations into alternative theories and observational contradictions of the big bang. To avoid bias, the peer review committee that allocates such funds could be composed of astronomers and physicists from outside the field of cosmology.

Allocating funding to investigations into the big bang's validity, and its alternatives, would allow the scientific process to determine our most accurate model of the history of the universe.

If you want to sign this statement , please click here

Signed:
(Institutions for identification only)
Highlighted names are linked to related web pages

Halton Arp, Max-Planck-Institute Fur Astrophysik (Germany)
Andre Koch Torres Assis, State University of Campinas (Brazil)
Yuri Baryshev, Astronomical Institute, St. Petersburg State University (Russia)
Ari Brynjolfsson, Applied Radiation Industries (USA)
Hermann Bondi, Churchill College, University of Cambridge (UK)
Timothy Eastman, Plasmas International (USA)
Chuck Gallo, Superconix, Inc.(USA)
Thomas Gold, Cornell University (emeritus) (USA)
Amitabha Ghosh, Indian Institute of Technology, Kanpur (India)
Walter J. Heikkila, University of Texas at Dallas (USA) ................................................. 10
Michael Ibison, Institute for Advanced Studies at Austin (USA)
Thomas Jarboe, University of Washington (USA)
Jerry W. Jensen, ATK Propulsion (USA)
Menas Kafatos, George Mason University (USA)
Eric J. Lerner, Lawrenceville Plasma Physics (USA)
Paul Marmet, Herzberg Institute of Astrophysics (retired) (Canada)
Paola Marziani, Istituto Nazionale di Astrofisica, Osservatorio Astronomico di Padova (Italy)
Gregory Meholic, The Aerospace Corporation (USA)
Jacques Moret-Bailly, Université Dijon (retired) (France)
Jayant Narlikar, IUCAA(emeritus) and College de France (India, France) ........................ 20
Marcos Cesar Danhoni Neves, State University of Maringá (Brazil)
Charles D. Orth, Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory (USA)
R. David Pace, Lyon College (USA)
Georges Paturel, Observatoire de Lyon (France)
Jean-Claude Pecker, College de France (France)
Anthony L. Peratt, Los Alamos National Laboratory (USA)
Bill Peter, BAE Systems Advanced Technologies (USA)
David Roscoe, Sheffield University (UK)
Malabika Roy, George Mason University (USA)
Sisir Roy, George Mason University (USA) .................................................................... 30
Konrad Rudnicki, Jagiellonian University (Poland)
Domingos S.L. Soares, Federal University of Minas Gerais (Brazil)
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New signers of the Open letter since publication

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Jonathan Chambers, University of Sheffield, UK ................................................................. 40
Michel A. Duguay, Laval University, Canada
Qi Pan, Fitzwilliam College, Cambridge, UK
Fred Rost, University of NSW (Emeritus), Australia
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Hetu Sheth, Earth Sciences, Indian Institute of Technology Bombay, India
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Adolf Muenker, Brane Industries, USA
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Peter F. Richiuso, NASA, KSC, USA
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Sushupti said:
Sure doesn't sound like the YHVH I know.. you're mixing in some of that hermetic philosophy, which actually makes sense, with your irrational beliefs :)

All I know about Hermes Trismestigus is that he knew everything between earth and heaven. The Bible is like every other thing in the universe, people experience and understand it differently, since people are different... that's why you don't recognize my view of "Jehova".
 
Incidently, I read somewhere that the only pronunciation of "YHVH" that is more likely than others to be wrong, is "Jehovah" :) the guy misread "YHVH" with "(Eloha)" under it, to mean that the vowels in YHVH were the same as in Eloha... or something very close to this, anyway, I read this long ago. I think Yaweh is a safer bet...

But anyway, "your view" of the entity in question i find pretty valid... It just isn't the guy written about in the bible, is all :) I think you'd like Hermetic Philosophy, though... legend is that Abraham was his disciple.
 
KennyJC said:
I feel certain enough that most christians (having been brought up as one) are complete idiots. They seem absolute certain that this bible is the truth. Religion so far seems to not want to go forward. Religion is already set in stone.

Not all religions have the contradictions that mainstream Christianity and Judaism have. People want to have faith, and that's not a terrible thing. But they can be misled by paradoxical faiths from the Middle East such as Christianity and Judaism.
 
It is a mere fact and not an opinion and very inevitable that there are people who joined religious organizations because of stupidities.
 
enton said:
It is a mere fact and not an opinion and very inevitable that there are people who joined religious organizations because of stupidities.
*************
M*W: Like you?
 
well maybe, but i'm not part of an organisation, just a belief system based on 1 presupposition: There us a God.
And your believe system is very similar and also unprovable
There is no God
You prove my presupossed idea false, and I will do the same to yours.
 
enton said:
No. But like you."

You said, "It is a mere fact and not an opinion and very inevitable that there are people who joined religious organizations because of stupidities.
*************
M*W: But you lie once again. It is a fact and not an opinion that I don't belong to any religious organization, stupid or not. I am adamantly opposed to religion because of its stupidities. I am adamantly opposed to christians due to their stupidities as well.
 
Medicine Woman said:
*************
M*W: But you lie once again. It is a fact and not an opinion that I don't belong to any religious organization, stupid or not. I am adamantly opposed to religion because of its stupidities. I am adamantly opposed to christians due to their stupidities as well.

Isnt atheism also just a religion that cannot be proven or disproven. A non-scientific belief???
 
psycho-sth-african said:
well maybe, but i'm not part of an organisation, just a belief system based on 1 presupposition: There us a God.
And your believe system is very similar and also unprovable
There is no God
You prove my presupossed idea false, and I will do the same to yours.

My post when I wrote it had nothing to do with wether a creator existed or not. I'm agnostic which means I don't believe in the existence or the non-existence of god, which I believe is the only sensible way to look at it. But anyway, my post had to do with the stupidity of religion. In the 21st century religion is more exposed than ever on it's stupidity and distorted view of the creator IF there is one.
 
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