What gave it away? My pointing out that you were incorrect?
Seriously? Are you that ignorant of the facts?So, spill the beans.
How about fixed Earth?
Flat Earth?
Geocentric solar system?
For starters.
Isn't being an Atheist a religion?
- Thread starter iHaveNoIdea
- Start date
How about fixed Earth?
Flat Earth?
Geocentric solar system?
For starters.
spidergoat,
Doesn't prove prayer doesn't work.
Proves nothing.
Creationism, and creation, are two different things.
How does does this prove God is false?
What are the qualities of a "religious person"?
How does this prove God false?
But they all basically describe God in the same way.
Eyewitness evidence?
You mean like the expansion of the universe?
You need to have a big picture perspective, which you don't, to make that
statement.
What is your evidence for this?
Keep em comin.
jan.
Doesn't prove prayer doesn't work.
Proves nothing.
Creationism, and creation, are two different things.
How does does this prove God is false?
What are the qualities of a "religious person"?
How does this prove God false?
But they all basically describe God in the same way.
Eyewitness evidence?
You mean like the expansion of the universe?
You need to have a big picture perspective, which you don't, to make that
statement.
What is your evidence for this?
Keep em comin.
jan.
Dywyddyr,
Actually i think you do believe that list.
You just don't want to.
I'm talking about religion.
jan.
?
Actually i think you do believe that list.
You just don't want to.
I'm talking about religion.
jan.
And you're wrong again.
I see. Or rather I don't.
The bible is nothing to do with religion? At all?
Religion (of one sort or another) hasn't ever used the bible as a source of "facts" (in fact the ONLY source - they claimed)? More ignorance on your part.
Jan,
1. It shows there is no evidence for prayer working at this time.
2. Shows that God doesn't favor his followers.
3. That means creation (of life) can better be explained through a non-intelligent evolutionary process.
4. Belief doesn't make people good, so that undermines the moral superiority claims of religion.
5. The concept of God depends on the truth of his word as represented in religious texts. If they are self-contradictory, that shows the origin is not in God, but in fallible men.
6. No they don't, many of them are different in significant ways (ways which make people act badly towards each other).
7. Anedotal evidence is not reliable. Mass hysteria is possible.
8. Nothing specific enough to show real knowledge.
9. BS. The bible says to kill your children if they blaspheme or disrespect you. It says to kill the disabled.
10. http://www.colorado.edu/philosophy/vstenger/Cosmo/FineTune.pdf
1. It shows there is no evidence for prayer working at this time.
2. Shows that God doesn't favor his followers.
3. That means creation (of life) can better be explained through a non-intelligent evolutionary process.
4. Belief doesn't make people good, so that undermines the moral superiority claims of religion.
5. The concept of God depends on the truth of his word as represented in religious texts. If they are self-contradictory, that shows the origin is not in God, but in fallible men.
6. No they don't, many of them are different in significant ways (ways which make people act badly towards each other).
7. Anedotal evidence is not reliable. Mass hysteria is possible.
8. Nothing specific enough to show real knowledge.
9. BS. The bible says to kill your children if they blaspheme or disrespect you. It says to kill the disabled.
10. http://www.colorado.edu/philosophy/vstenger/Cosmo/FineTune.pdf
Dywyddyr
Nope. You're wrong.
There is some religion in it.
They've also used science as a source of facts.
jan.
Nope. You're wrong.
There is some religion in it.
They've also used science as a source of facts.
jan.
And that's because...?
Oh wait, it's because you know what I'm thinking better than I do.
fail. Again.
Um, wrong. The bible is the basis of religion (for one particular branch of religion at least - Christianity).
Again, the bible is not based on science it's based on belief and "the word of god".
So do the Boy Scouts, the Republican Party, and General Motors.doreen said:
Why not? The alternative is accepting unreality, false assertions, self-contradiction, and so forth, in one's ethical systems and sets of values.doreen said:
"They" - the ideological - are not "atheism". They do not all have the same or even similar ideology, merely by being atheist. And ideologies are not religions - not even the ones people are trying to spread and establish. We have two words for two different phenomena.doreen said:
They do not.jan said:
There is none.jan said:
Not found in them.jan said:
The scarcity of life almost everywhere we look for it, the difficulty of living in most of the universe, the struggle of life to maintain itself in any but small and temporary corners of the universe, the lack of favorable circumstances that is the overwhelming environment of the universe we know.jan said:
Among others.
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spidergoat,
Doesn't prove prayer doesn't work.
2. Shows that God doesn't favor his followers.
Bad reactions are a consequence of bad actions.
Not being favourable with God.
No it doesn't.
This does not answer my questions.
Even if you are correct (which you're not), how does this prove GOD false?
Examples.
It is reliable if the source is credible.
Expanding universe sounds pretty specific to me.
BS. It doesn't.
Just cut and paste the bits you find evidential.
jan.
Doesn't prove prayer doesn't work.
2. Shows that God doesn't favor his followers.
Bad reactions are a consequence of bad actions.
Not being favourable with God.
No it doesn't.
This does not answer my questions.
Even if you are correct (which you're not), how does this prove GOD false?
Examples.
It is reliable if the source is credible.
Expanding universe sounds pretty specific to me.
BS. It doesn't.
[/QUOTE]
Just cut and paste the bits you find evidential.
jan.
Dywyddyr,
Oh, so it alright for you to those types of answers!
Glad you corrected yourself.
Does science mean knowledge?
jan.
Oh, so it alright for you to those types of answers!
Glad you corrected yourself.
Does science mean knowledge?
jan.
No religious text written prior to 1900 has an expanding universe in it.jan said:
Spontaneous cancers in children are not the result of bad actions.jan said:
Unnecessary. Existential cannot be proved "false", anyway.jan said:
Proof of that kind is for math.jan said:
There is no evidence prayer has anything to do with an existing deity, if the belief itself is not declared to be it.
The source is not credible.jan said:
No more so than not believing the horoscope makes you an astrologer.
I will admit I didn’t read all six pages but I read enough, so let me say what I will.
1: Atheism is not a Religion. But neither is Theism. Both are Philosophical positions regarding a singular topic. Theism is the belief that at least one god exists. Atheism is the rejection of all gods. Religion is defined as a Set of Beliefs about the Nature, Cause, and ultimate meaning of our existence.
While I would argue (more below) that all people are Religious, I would not classify Atheism in and of itself as a Religion any more than I would Theism. If I say “I believe in a god” I have not told you what Religion I am, in the same way that I haven’t told you what Religions I am if I say “ I don’t believe in any gods”. There is more to Religion than a singular question.
2: Some people here define Atheism as a lack of Religious Beliefs. This is not True. Atheism is not a lack of Religious beliefs. Atheism is Rejection of Theism, not Religion.
Religion is not defined as a Synonym for Theism. There are Religions that exist that do not require belief in any god. One can be an Atheist and Religious and I think everyone agrees with that even if they don’t agree that everyone is Religious. But if you can be Religious and an Atheist, then it is not True that Atheism is a lack of Religious belief.
3: I don’t buy into the recently created claim that Atheism can be broken into strong and weak varieties. An Atheist is someone who does not believe in a god, and the variant of “I don’t believe there is a god” VS “ I believe there are no gods” is really only a mater of degrees, with the distinction in terms of Atheism itself being meaningless.
While people can have differing attitudes or magnitudes of beliefs, and differing degrees of certitude, the Truth remains that either one believes a god exists, or one does not. Agnostism is saying “I don’t know” and is not really the same as Atheism, but “Weak Atheism” may as well be called Agnostism.
4: Atheism is often defined these days in these debates as “Lack of belief in a god”. This is absurd. Not only is it not True in the Epistemological sense, but its ontologically not possible to have a concept of something and lack belief in it. You can believe such an object does not actually exist, but you can’t lack belief. Once a concept is introduced, you must either believe such a thing is True, or reject it as False.
Atheism is not a lack of belief in a god, its belief that there are no gods. I am not confusing Strong and Weak Atheism, see 3.
5: Religion is not just “Belief’, it has a specific definition.
6: Religion is defined as a Set of beliefs about the Nature, cause, and ultimate meaning of our Existence. Religion is a Philosophical model we use to understand our world and ourselves. Even the supposedly non-religious Philosophies that come up as alternatives to Religion are Religions by definition as they serve this same function.
EG, Secular Humanism is a Religion.
I would thus argue that All people, including Atheists, have Religious beliefs, and are Religious. However, the Religions they could holds to go beyond the position of whether or not a god exists. For example, Secular Humanism also teaches a more liberated sexual ethic, and teaches a stark materialism as the basis of our life here. Humanists also tend to promote communal co-operation and advancement of Humanity by placing Human Needs above all other considerations. You can actually believe in either of those propositions and still believe in a god, though. Plus, none of the Three things I listed are directly related, and one can hold any one of those beliefs and not the others. None of the beliefs in isolation are a Religion, its only when you add them all together and weave them into a tapestry to create a unified understanding of the World that it becomes a Religion. Religion is a comprehensive Philosophy of the Nature of our Existence that tells us who we are and where we came from, it is not a singular BELIEF.
ITS ALSO RATHER SILLY TO THINK OF Atheism as a Religion for another reason, one can be an Atheist and not a Secular Humanist. EG, one can follow Ayn Rand’s Objectivism. Rand’s beliefs had similarities to Secular Humanism in some ways, but also sharp contrasts. The driving principle behind Rand’s beliefs for example is Rational Self Interest. Whereas Secular Humanism is based around collective communitarian values, Objectivism is based around the promotion of self interest as primary.
So you see, if I told you I am an Atheist, it doesn’t tell you which Religion I am. I could be a Secular Humanist. I could also be an Objectivist. Heck, I could be a Buddhist, as some forms of it do not require belief in a god. I could even be a Christian, as some of the more Liberal types of Christianity allow Atheists to be part of them. John Shelby Spong is a good example of that, but so is Robert Price who still attends Church and even denies Jesus existed, or some Churches that follow other Modern interpretations of the Bible. Some even base their Theological understanding on Paul Tillich and claim to be ATHEISTS. There are also a lot of Secular Jews who are Atheists, or Atheist Muslims.
Atheism is therefore not in itself a Religion, but neither is Theism a Religion. But I do think you are on to something.
1: Atheism is not a Religion. But neither is Theism. Both are Philosophical positions regarding a singular topic. Theism is the belief that at least one god exists. Atheism is the rejection of all gods. Religion is defined as a Set of Beliefs about the Nature, Cause, and ultimate meaning of our existence.
While I would argue (more below) that all people are Religious, I would not classify Atheism in and of itself as a Religion any more than I would Theism. If I say “I believe in a god” I have not told you what Religion I am, in the same way that I haven’t told you what Religions I am if I say “ I don’t believe in any gods”. There is more to Religion than a singular question.
2: Some people here define Atheism as a lack of Religious Beliefs. This is not True. Atheism is not a lack of Religious beliefs. Atheism is Rejection of Theism, not Religion.
Religion is not defined as a Synonym for Theism. There are Religions that exist that do not require belief in any god. One can be an Atheist and Religious and I think everyone agrees with that even if they don’t agree that everyone is Religious. But if you can be Religious and an Atheist, then it is not True that Atheism is a lack of Religious belief.
3: I don’t buy into the recently created claim that Atheism can be broken into strong and weak varieties. An Atheist is someone who does not believe in a god, and the variant of “I don’t believe there is a god” VS “ I believe there are no gods” is really only a mater of degrees, with the distinction in terms of Atheism itself being meaningless.
While people can have differing attitudes or magnitudes of beliefs, and differing degrees of certitude, the Truth remains that either one believes a god exists, or one does not. Agnostism is saying “I don’t know” and is not really the same as Atheism, but “Weak Atheism” may as well be called Agnostism.
4: Atheism is often defined these days in these debates as “Lack of belief in a god”. This is absurd. Not only is it not True in the Epistemological sense, but its ontologically not possible to have a concept of something and lack belief in it. You can believe such an object does not actually exist, but you can’t lack belief. Once a concept is introduced, you must either believe such a thing is True, or reject it as False.
Atheism is not a lack of belief in a god, its belief that there are no gods. I am not confusing Strong and Weak Atheism, see 3.
5: Religion is not just “Belief’, it has a specific definition.
6: Religion is defined as a Set of beliefs about the Nature, cause, and ultimate meaning of our Existence. Religion is a Philosophical model we use to understand our world and ourselves. Even the supposedly non-religious Philosophies that come up as alternatives to Religion are Religions by definition as they serve this same function.
EG, Secular Humanism is a Religion.
I would thus argue that All people, including Atheists, have Religious beliefs, and are Religious. However, the Religions they could holds to go beyond the position of whether or not a god exists. For example, Secular Humanism also teaches a more liberated sexual ethic, and teaches a stark materialism as the basis of our life here. Humanists also tend to promote communal co-operation and advancement of Humanity by placing Human Needs above all other considerations. You can actually believe in either of those propositions and still believe in a god, though. Plus, none of the Three things I listed are directly related, and one can hold any one of those beliefs and not the others. None of the beliefs in isolation are a Religion, its only when you add them all together and weave them into a tapestry to create a unified understanding of the World that it becomes a Religion. Religion is a comprehensive Philosophy of the Nature of our Existence that tells us who we are and where we came from, it is not a singular BELIEF.
ITS ALSO RATHER SILLY TO THINK OF Atheism as a Religion for another reason, one can be an Atheist and not a Secular Humanist. EG, one can follow Ayn Rand’s Objectivism. Rand’s beliefs had similarities to Secular Humanism in some ways, but also sharp contrasts. The driving principle behind Rand’s beliefs for example is Rational Self Interest. Whereas Secular Humanism is based around collective communitarian values, Objectivism is based around the promotion of self interest as primary.
So you see, if I told you I am an Atheist, it doesn’t tell you which Religion I am. I could be a Secular Humanist. I could also be an Objectivist. Heck, I could be a Buddhist, as some forms of it do not require belief in a god. I could even be a Christian, as some of the more Liberal types of Christianity allow Atheists to be part of them. John Shelby Spong is a good example of that, but so is Robert Price who still attends Church and even denies Jesus existed, or some Churches that follow other Modern interpretations of the Bible. Some even base their Theological understanding on Paul Tillich and claim to be ATHEISTS. There are also a lot of Secular Jews who are Atheists, or Atheist Muslims.
Atheism is therefore not in itself a Religion, but neither is Theism a Religion. But I do think you are on to something.