Isn't being an Atheist a religion?

spidergoat,

1. Prayer doesn't work in rigorously designed studies.

Doesn't prove prayer doesn't work.

2. Bad things happen to good people.

Proves nothing.

3. Creationism is false.

Creationism, and creation, are two different things.

4. Religious people aren't any more good than non-religious people.

How does does this prove God is false?
What are the qualities of a "religious person"?

5. Religious texts are self-contradictory.

How does this prove God false?

6. Religious texts show evidence of being written and rewritten by many authors, in contrast to their mythological origins.

But they all basically describe God in the same way.

7. No evidence for miracles.

Eyewitness evidence?

8. No evidence thattexts contain knowledge that could not have been known at the time they were written. religious

You mean like the expansion of the universe?

9. Religious texts promote immoral behavior.

You need to have a big picture perspective, which you don't, to make that
statement.

10. The universe is not fine-tuned for life.

What is your evidence for this?

Just ten I could think of at the moment.

Keep em comin.

jan.
 
Dywyddyr,

What gave it away? My pointing out that you were incorrect
?

Actually i think you do believe that list.
You just don't want to.

Seriously? Are you that ignorant of the facts?
How about fixed Earth?
Flat Earth?
Geocentric solar system?
For starters.

I'm talking about religion.

jan.
 
Actually i think you do believe that list.
You just don't want to.
And you're wrong again.

I'm talking about religion.
I see. Or rather I don't.
The bible is nothing to do with religion? At all?
Religion (of one sort or another) hasn't ever used the bible as a source of "facts" (in fact the ONLY source - they claimed)? More ignorance on your part.
 
See my previous post.
I've already answered this, why post the same thing twice?
 
Jan,

1. It shows there is no evidence for prayer working at this time.
2. Shows that God doesn't favor his followers.
3. That means creation (of life) can better be explained through a non-intelligent evolutionary process.
4. Belief doesn't make people good, so that undermines the moral superiority claims of religion.
5. The concept of God depends on the truth of his word as represented in religious texts. If they are self-contradictory, that shows the origin is not in God, but in fallible men.
6. No they don't, many of them are different in significant ways (ways which make people act badly towards each other).
7. Anedotal evidence is not reliable. Mass hysteria is possible.
8. Nothing specific enough to show real knowledge.
9. BS. The bible says to kill your children if they blaspheme or disrespect you. It says to kill the disabled.
10. http://www.colorado.edu/philosophy/vstenger/Cosmo/FineTune.pdf
 
Dywyddyr

And you're wrong again.

Nope. You're wrong.

The bible is nothing to do with religion? At all?

There is some religion in it.

Religion (of one sort or another) hasn't ever used the bible as a source of "facts" (in fact the ONLY source - they claimed)? More ignorance on your part.

They've also used science as a source of facts.

jan.
 
Nope. You're wrong.
And that's because...?
Oh wait, it's because you know what I'm thinking better than I do. :rolleyes:
fail. Again.

There is some religion in it.
Um, wrong. The bible is the basis of religion (for one particular branch of religion at least - Christianity).

They've also used science as a source of facts.
Again, the bible is not based on science it's based on belief and "the word of god".
 
doreen said:
The atheist organizations do have a set of beliefs. They are organized. They get together around these beliefs. They have specific practices. And you can add in that some of these beliefs are not based on empirical research.
So do the Boy Scouts, the Republican Party, and General Motors.

doreen said:
Ethics and values cannot be evidence based.
Why not? The alternative is accepting unreality, false assertions, self-contradiction, and so forth, in one's ethical systems and sets of values.
doreen said:
Ideological should not even raise an eyebrow, or? Note: this clearly means they are not simply people who lack a belief. A proselytizing ideological organization.

I could rest with that as a compromise.
"They" - the ideological - are not "atheism". They do not all have the same or even similar ideology, merely by being atheist. And ideologies are not religions - not even the ones people are trying to spread and establish. We have two words for two different phenomena.

jan said:
But they all basically describe God in the same way.
They do not.
jan said:
7. No evidence for miracles.

Eyewitness evidence?
There is none.
jan said:
. No evidence thattexts contain knowledge that could not have been known at the time they were written. religious

You mean like the expansion of the universe?
Not found in them.
jan said:
10. The universe is not fine-tuned for life.

What is your evidence for this?
The scarcity of life almost everywhere we look for it, the difficulty of living in most of the universe, the struggle of life to maintain itself in any but small and temporary corners of the universe, the lack of favorable circumstances that is the overwhelming environment of the universe we know.

Among others.
 
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spidergoat,

1. It shows there is no evidence for prayer working at this time.

Doesn't prove prayer doesn't work.

2. Shows that God doesn't favor his followers.

Bad reactions are a consequence of bad actions.
Not being favourable with God.

3. That means creation (of life) can better be explained through a non-intelligent evolutionary process.

No it doesn't.

4. Belief doesn't make people good, so that undermines the moral superiority claims of religion.

This does not answer my questions.

5. The concept of God depends on the truth of his word as represented in religious texts. If they are self-contradictory, that shows the origin is not in God, but in fallible men.

Even if you are correct (which you're not), how does this prove GOD false?

6. No they don't, many of them are different in significant ways (ways which make people act badly towards each other).

Examples.

7. Anedotal evidence is not reliable. Mass hysteria is possible.

It is reliable if the source is credible.

8. Nothing specific enough to show real knowledge.

Expanding universe sounds pretty specific to me.

. BS. The bible says to kill your children if they blaspheme or disrespect
you. It says to kill the disabled.

BS. It doesn't.

[/QUOTE]

Just cut and paste the bits you find evidential.

jan.
 
Dywyddyr,

And that's because...?

Oh, so it alright for you to those types of answers!

Um, wrong. The bible is the basis of religion (for one particular branch of religion at least - Christianity).

Glad you corrected yourself.

Again, the bible is not based on science it's based on belief and "the word of god".

Does science mean knowledge?

jan.
 
jan said:
Expanding universe sounds pretty specific to me.
No religious text written prior to 1900 has an expanding universe in it.
jan said:
Bad reactions are a consequence of bad actions.
Not being favourable with God.
Spontaneous cancers in children are not the result of bad actions.
jan said:
Even if you are correct (which you're not), how does this prove GOD false?
Unnecessary. Existential cannot be proved "false", anyway.
jan said:
Doesn't prove prayer doesn't work.
Proof of that kind is for math.

There is no evidence prayer has anything to do with an existing deity, if the belief itself is not declared to be it.
jan said:
It is reliable if the source is credible.
The source is not credible.
 
“ Originally Posted by iHaveNoIdea
Atheist is really a religion

in a way sure , I have no problem with this when I think about it

in the second definition of religion , states , quote;

2) : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes , beliefs, and practices

towards my own Humanity why not
 
A year ago it wasn't a religion. Several years ago when these threads first stared it wasn't a religion.
It still isn't. :shrug: Close thread?
 
I will admit I didn’t read all six pages but I read enough, so let me say what I will.


1: Atheism is not a Religion. But neither is Theism. Both are Philosophical positions regarding a singular topic. Theism is the belief that at least one god exists. Atheism is the rejection of all gods. Religion is defined as a Set of Beliefs about the Nature, Cause, and ultimate meaning of our existence.


While I would argue (more below) that all people are Religious, I would not classify Atheism in and of itself as a Religion any more than I would Theism. If I say “I believe in a god” I have not told you what Religion I am, in the same way that I haven’t told you what Religions I am if I say “ I don’t believe in any gods”. There is more to Religion than a singular question.


2: Some people here define Atheism as a lack of Religious Beliefs. This is not True. Atheism is not a lack of Religious beliefs. Atheism is Rejection of Theism, not Religion.

Religion is not defined as a Synonym for Theism. There are Religions that exist that do not require belief in any god. One can be an Atheist and Religious and I think everyone agrees with that even if they don’t agree that everyone is Religious. But if you can be Religious and an Atheist, then it is not True that Atheism is a lack of Religious belief.

3: I don’t buy into the recently created claim that Atheism can be broken into strong and weak varieties. An Atheist is someone who does not believe in a god, and the variant of “I don’t believe there is a god” VS “ I believe there are no gods” is really only a mater of degrees, with the distinction in terms of Atheism itself being meaningless.

While people can have differing attitudes or magnitudes of beliefs, and differing degrees of certitude, the Truth remains that either one believes a god exists, or one does not. Agnostism is saying “I don’t know” and is not really the same as Atheism, but “Weak Atheism” may as well be called Agnostism.

4: Atheism is often defined these days in these debates as “Lack of belief in a god”. This is absurd. Not only is it not True in the Epistemological sense, but its ontologically not possible to have a concept of something and lack belief in it. You can believe such an object does not actually exist, but you can’t lack belief. Once a concept is introduced, you must either believe such a thing is True, or reject it as False.

Atheism is not a lack of belief in a god, its belief that there are no gods. I am not confusing Strong and Weak Atheism, see 3.





5: Religion is not just “Belief’, it has a specific definition.


6: Religion is defined as a Set of beliefs about the Nature, cause, and ultimate meaning of our Existence. Religion is a Philosophical model we use to understand our world and ourselves. Even the supposedly non-religious Philosophies that come up as alternatives to Religion are Religions by definition as they serve this same function.

EG, Secular Humanism is a Religion.


I would thus argue that All people, including Atheists, have Religious beliefs, and are Religious. However, the Religions they could holds to go beyond the position of whether or not a god exists. For example, Secular Humanism also teaches a more liberated sexual ethic, and teaches a stark materialism as the basis of our life here. Humanists also tend to promote communal co-operation and advancement of Humanity by placing Human Needs above all other considerations. You can actually believe in either of those propositions and still believe in a god, though. Plus, none of the Three things I listed are directly related, and one can hold any one of those beliefs and not the others. None of the beliefs in isolation are a Religion, its only when you add them all together and weave them into a tapestry to create a unified understanding of the World that it becomes a Religion. Religion is a comprehensive Philosophy of the Nature of our Existence that tells us who we are and where we came from, it is not a singular BELIEF.

ITS ALSO RATHER SILLY TO THINK OF Atheism as a Religion for another reason, one can be an Atheist and not a Secular Humanist. EG, one can follow Ayn Rand’s Objectivism. Rand’s beliefs had similarities to Secular Humanism in some ways, but also sharp contrasts. The driving principle behind Rand’s beliefs for example is Rational Self Interest. Whereas Secular Humanism is based around collective communitarian values, Objectivism is based around the promotion of self interest as primary.


So you see, if I told you I am an Atheist, it doesn’t tell you which Religion I am. I could be a Secular Humanist. I could also be an Objectivist. Heck, I could be a Buddhist, as some forms of it do not require belief in a god. I could even be a Christian, as some of the more Liberal types of Christianity allow Atheists to be part of them. John Shelby Spong is a good example of that, but so is Robert Price who still attends Church and even denies Jesus existed, or some Churches that follow other Modern interpretations of the Bible. Some even base their Theological understanding on Paul Tillich and claim to be ATHEISTS. There are also a lot of Secular Jews who are Atheists, or Atheist Muslims.

Atheism is therefore not in itself a Religion, but neither is Theism a Religion. But I do think you are on to something.
 
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