"Islamic" Golden Age

M

Michael

歌舞伎
Valued Senior Member
- Islamic Golden Age
- Islamic Science
- Islamic Math
- Islamic Art

We do not say Tao Golden Age, Christian Golden Age, or Shaman Golden Age, or Shinto Golden Age, Polytheistic Golden Age or even Pharaonic Golden Age.

We do say Greek Golden Age, Egyptian Golden Age, Chinese Golden Age...


We do not say Shinto Science or Christian Calculus or Tao Algebra...


We refer to Roman Architecture or Indian Architecture etc... we don't refer to it as Christian unless we're referring to a Church.



You see, in the Islamic countries the religous establishment have done a wonderful job of fooling everyone into thinking about things incorrectly. Unlike the rest of the world, they paint almost everything as being "Islamic". Gotta wipe your arse? Do so Islamically :bugeye: That's true.

This vague word that has no concrete meaning except to the individual who uses it. Overall this acts to maintain the power base (as in all societies) - in this case the theocratic establishment. It makes it almost impossible for normal people, who happen to Muslim, to move past "Islam". Because in doing so they feel they must lost their entire history. This is not true.

As soon as they realize Calculus or Advanced Engineering, discovered by a Christian, is still just math and engineering and has little to nothing to do with the aside that they were raised Christian, then maybe people raised in the ME can move past this idea that everything important in their history is "Islamic". It's not. Nothing scientific has anything at all to do with superstitious beleif.


Really, if they ever want to move into the 21st century, they'll have to assess the entire way they think about themselves and their history.



Just remember: no one refers to a "Religious" Golden Age unless they are an archaeologist and are specifically referring to development in those religous ideas. So to say "Islam Golden Age", you'd be talking about the real development of that beleif system over time from previous Christian, Zoroastrian and Jewish ideas into a mature beleif called Islam. It didn't happen over night either.


Anyway, its something to think about.


Europeans must have had to overcome the same sorts of mental obsticals in order for them to move past Christendom? As I know many Muslims from the ME that are now atheist, I know Muslims also have the same ability to similarly mentally progress.

M
 
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Michael...imagine this...all the progressed countries go into economic recess, after a while major companies cease to exist, machinery nearly stops, no jobs, no food, the industrialized nations start downfalling into abyss, their Golden Age has ended. Meanwhile the guys who believe more in superstitions and do not associate with other religions and nations, do better and better...their prehistoric ways of thinking, kept them alive.

Having people like Muslims in our world, is a great safeway for people of Earth.
 
Well, we could also imagine a day when some well meaning religous fruit loop invents a virus that targets what they perceive as their religous enemy - the infidel. They unleash this virus knowing that God was on their side and will protect God's chosen people. Imagine all of humanity dies.

We've made such virus to kill other animals - human's are animals, there's nothing spacial about humans to a virus and there is no God that will save our arses should someone make a virus. (actually, they probably already have?)
 
Michael, if there is anyone who are capable of doing such evil, it is the industrialized nations, not the religious fanatics. After all Afghanistan/Taliban would have fallen if it was not for the help from the West(USA missiles) and East (Soviet arms)
 
Anyway, this post is about the way people in the ME think.


Now, they should open their eyes, take a good look at all the other cultures of the world, sing that Sesame Street song: Which one of these is not like the others, which one of these doesn't belong... and realize they are being taken for a ride.


What's interesting is they CAN see how the rulers of KSA use Islam to rule their people while at the same time not notice the same is being done to them - on some level their perspective is being warped.


Now once again to remake the point again: We do not say Tao Golden Age, Christian Golden Age, or Shaman Golden Age, or Shinto Golden Age, Polytheistic Golden Age or even Pharaonic Golden Age. We do say Greek Golden Age, Egyptian Golden Age, Chinese Golden Age...
 
There is already a substantial wiki on the topic:

Islamic Golden Age

We do not say Tao Golden Age, Christian Golden Age, or Shaman Golden Age, or Shinto Golden Age, Polytheistic Golden Age or even Pharaonic Golden Age. We do say Greek Golden Age, Egyptian Golden Age, Chinese Golden Age...
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Probably because, unlike all of the above, in the Islamic Golden Age, the emphasis was on Islam.
 
draqon said:
Michael, if there is anyone who are capable of doing such evil, it is the industrialized nations, not the religious fanatics. After all Afghanistan/Taliban would have fallen if it was not for the help from the West(USA missiles) and East (Soviet arms)
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Yes, and we made such things, but, because we are hopefully at some level rational, we don't use them. When you start thinking God is on your side, then you end up with a fruitloop like Bush Jr, and we all know how that one turned out right?
 
I don't get it Michael, what do you want them the Islamic people to do actually? Please make the precise list of actions these Islamic people should do.
 
Michael said:
Yes, and we made such things, but, because we are hopefully at some level rational, we don't use them. When you start thinking God is on your side, then you end up with a fruitloop like Bush Jr, and we all know how that one turned out right?
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well fruitloop Bush Jr is related to the not Islamic Golden Age, but a Christian Golden Age...and does he really follow religion? Does he base his actions solely on bible? I don't think so.
 
Michael said:
Think :)
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Did you know that Osama bin Laden is a rebel? He believes that dictators and kings and corporate run countries like the US are a stain on the Middle East. He has broken away from centuries of tradition where the clergy do not speak out in matters of state. He thinks. Beware of what you wish for, for you may [yet] get it. :p
 
Did you know that the idea of evolution had been around for some time. Actually, many ME scholars wrote about the evolution of animals. But, they could not think that such a process was the case for humans. And so, one of the greatest ideas to usher in modern biology was crushed under the weight of their superstitious baggage. It may have been middle easterners who ushered in the biological revolution?

Now imagine such restraints were holding back all sorts of people from all sorts endeavors.


Not to say that we don't have our own hangups, as you mentioned in another post, most Americans believe they live in a democracy - and we do, but probably not exactly the one we think we do :)
 
Yeah terrible. Was this before or after the European dark ages influenced their thinking [including ideas like face veils and sodomy]
 
S.A.M. said:
Did you know that Osama bin Laden is a rebel? He believes that dictators and kings and corporate run countries like the US are a stain on the Middle East. He has broken away from centuries of tradition where the clergy do not speak out in matters of state. He thinks. Beware of what you wish for, for you may [yet] get it. :p
Click to expand...
I have enough faith in human being innate ability to do good to worry they need to be controlled by a superstition.

That said, as I said before, yeah, people need superstitious beleifs. For whatever reasons. We therefor should make sure that said beleifs are appropriate for all of humanity, not just a small tribe somewhere in the ME.
 
S.A.M. said:
Yeah terrible. Was this before or after the European dark ages influenced their thinking [including ideas like face veils and sodomy]
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It may have been concurrent.

I hope you didn't miss the point?



Anyway, read the op - that's the real topic of discussion.
 
I have enough faith in human being innate ability to do good to worry they need to be controlled by a superstition.
Click to expand...

You do? Even after Iraq? Didn't you personally support the invasion of Afghanistan? Those backward savages needed to be taught a lesson, eh?
 
draqon said:
I don't get it Michael, what do you want them the Islamic people to do actually? Please make the precise list of actions these Islamic people should do.
Click to expand...
actually with a just a minor bit of tweaking, Michael could make for a great Islamic reformer
:D
 
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