Islam will only be at piece with Muslims?

You are fucking pathetic, Flores. You could have saved face if you had at least conceded that I was right. That would have bought you just a bit of respect with me; but no, you have to defend your abomination of a belief, for any price.

And if you didnt read what I wrote, there was actually a reference to the Qu'ran:
55:74.

I hope you like sucking up to the paedophile Mohammed and his band of killers and robbers. You and your peers only perpetuate the crimes done in the name of Islam when you defend it.

Enjoy the hell you create for yourself, your children and your people, Flores. You deserve it!
 
Boy DJsupreme, I really enjoyed seeing you fire off and crash just like you did.

You don't stand on straw, you stand on nothing. You aim to mock and we aim to mock you back. That's all this is about. And without a pinus, I can sure piss longer than you do.

As far as 55:74, it's sexless, i.e., male and female, although you have demonstrated your idiocity and inability to understand, I'll explain to you.

[55.62] And besides these two are two (other) gardens:
[55.63] Which then of the bounties of your Lord will you deny?
[55.64] Both inclining to blackness.
[55.65] Which then of the bounties of your Lord will you deny?
[55.66] In both of them are two springs gushing forth.
[55.67] Which then of the bounties of your Lord will you deny?
[55.68] In both are fruits and palms and pomegranates.
[55.69] Which then of the bounties of your Lord will you deny?
[55.70] In them are goodly things, beautiful ones.
[55.71] Which then of the bounties of your Lord will you deny?
[55.72] Pure ones confined to the pavilions.
[55.73] Which then of the bounties of your Lord will you deny?
[55.74] Man has not touched them before them nor jinni.
[55.75] Which then of the bounties of your Lord will you deny?
[55.76] Reclining on green cushions and beautiful carpets.
[55.77] Which then of the bounties of your Lord will you deny?
[55.78] Blessed be the name of your Lord, the Lord of Glory and Honor!

God said pure ones, could be male or female. Afterall, females go to heaven you know and deserve some fun. Those pure ones have not been touched by anyone before us.
 
Originally posted by DJSupreme23
You are fucking pathetic, Flores. You could have saved face if you had at least conceded that I was right. That would have bought you just a bit of respect with me; but no, you have to defend your abomination of a belief, for any price.

And if you didnt read what I wrote, there was actually a reference to the Qu'ran:
55:74.

I hope you like sucking up to the paedophile Mohammed and his band of killers and robbers. You and your peers only perpetuate the crimes done in the name of Islam when you defend it.

Enjoy the hell you create for yourself, your children and your people, Flores. You deserve it!
Click to expand...


Some one is really frustrated. Reminds of Blackstone. ;)


How was the church today? :rolleyes:

By the way, even if they will get 72 virgins, why are you getting jealous? Do you want some too? or is your perverted mind imagening things?? :rolleyes:
 
Go Buddhism!!

Originally posted by (Q)
So, are the waves of suicide bombers Christians? Atheists? Buddhists?
Click to expand...
When a Buddhist gets really pissed he just sets himself on fire.
"That'll show-em! I’ll just burn myself up!! (well all peoples have their nut-Zoës. So it's good to channel it in such as way as to not hurt someone else. Right? :)
Can there be a more civilizing peaceful religion/philosophy on the planet than Buddhism?

Go Buddhism!!

PS: Sorry no virgins in the afterlife, lots of contemplation about why you have this one and you may enter life again as a frog if you kill someone else? :cool:
 
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The middle way

Not that I think I can broker peace between you two but I think you’re both missing on a couple of counts.

DJSupreme23: The Hadith is a supplement to the Qur’an, a record of traditions and sayings and is not the primary religious doctrine. It should probably be read with a critical eye towards the culture and the events surrounding the writings. Affronting all of Islam over some of the interpretations of the Hadith would be similar to saying that the U.S. espouses slavery because Jefferson owned slaves. It is not a part of the U.S. constitution but was a part of a cultural tradition (that we inherited from Europe, I might add) that we have since rejected.

Flores: A simple ‘Who gives a fuck about Hadith’ is not really enough of an answer. Most of Islam does consider the Hadith almost as important as the Qur’an and without that critical eye I mentioned turned to interpretation within a cultural context it can be interpreted in an extremely hostile way. Simply denying it is no better of an answer than the response, ‘They weren’t real Christians’ that some Christians give regarding those that carried out the Inquisition.

~Raithere
 
In practice haddith seems to be more influential than Quran itself. That gives the clergy and nuts enough free hand.
 
In practice haddith seems to be more influential than Quran itself. That gives the clergy and nuts enough free hand.

In pracitice Islam & Qu'ran has very very little to do with Muslims because of reasons going beyond the value of the Hdith only .

Can there be a more civilizing peaceful religion/philosophy on the planet than Buddhism?

It depends on alot more than just scriptures , as the relation between the interpertation of scriptures oftenly inst a logical one . If we bring it down to the scriptures , you'll find more in comon between philosophies than you could have ever imagined by looking at its praciticers .

Sorry no virgins in the afterlife, lots of contemplation about why you have this one and you may enter life again as a frog if you kill someone else?

How about the endorcement of class-system and self-responsibility for how you are born ? Through this logic Sudan-slave-children have been very very bad peoples in their previous lives , something tha implies the justification necesarry in Buddhism for self-acceptance .

Dont think the Buddhist pacifism is all good , its admirable perhaps , but totally not realistic .

And for the topic : Yes Islam will only be at peace with Muslims as Islam=Peace (Salim) and Muslim=He of(with) peace (upon him) (Mu-As-Salim) . Im sure Im getting another dumbass remark about this one , cant wait .........
:(
 
Originally posted by Ghassan Kanafani
In practice haddith seems to be more influential than Quran itself. That gives the clergy and nuts enough free hand.

In pracitice Islam & Qu'ran has very very little to do with Muslims because of reasons going beyond the value of the Hdith only .

Click to expand...

Yet, Imaams and Mullahs regularly quote both Qu'ran and Hadith and find inspiration there.

No matter what you have to say of defense or denial, these passages are read, and often followed by moslems.
 
Yet, Imaams and Mullahs regularly quote both Qu'ran and Hadith and find inspiration there.

1)They more imagine then quote
2)Islam isnt defined by its Imams


No matter what you have to say of defense or denial, these passages are read, and often followed by moslems.

Most cant even read them , and some parts cant be read at all today . But I dont assume you to know anything about this as you simply are after demonization . You have proved not to have seen a Qu'ran in your entire life . Your credibility is that of a spammer with all those demonization threads you start over and over .

Islam does not equate to what Muslims follow by definition , nor in todays practical reality .
 
the word islam in arabic does not mean 'peace' , it means 'submission' , and the word muslim means one who submit or a slave to allah.

Nope . Let me explain things to you :

Islam comes from the root SLM (Salima) and it has 5 meanings :

1)Surrender
2)Submission (Taslima)
3)Obedience
4)Sincerity
5)Peace

Muslim means to be of Islam .

and regarding the verses you mentioned, wheree is your proof from the quran that the 'message' is ONLY te quran?

Because Qu'ran is considered to be the 1 true word of God .

He who obeys the Messenger, obeys Allah; but if any turn away, We have not sent thee to watch over their (evil deeds).

And how would one know that Hadith is indeed the way of the messenger ? We have no certainty over this . By rejecting Hadith you do not by defintion reject Muhammads teachings .
 
no..

from the arabic lexicons :

????????? : ???.-: ?????? ????????? ????????

http://lexicons.ajeeb.com/html/1061396.html

its driven from the root word (Sallama) not (Salima) ...wich means to submit , and a muslim as i explained above, is a submitter or a slave to allah.


What ?
That link doesnt work properly for me . In any way you are incomplete like I said . I have given you a correct explanation of the word but you are right on 1 thing , it is Salama and not Salima excuse my error .

Also Im not sure where you got "slave" from .

sorry, my question is : where in the quran does it says that the islamic religon message consists of ONLY the Quran? verse please.

It doesnt . But it does say it is the only one true word of God , thus if something else contradicts it this implies that "something else" would be incorrect . If that something else is Hadith than so it will be '.

well, by you rejecting the whole hadiths and Sunna we would have no certainty of the sources and history of the whole religion and the quran itself.

Nobody is rejecting the whole , I am merely rejecting of them being correct by definition .

actually you do, because they are the only source of muhammad's teachings that the quran orders you to follow side to side by the quran.

No you dont , because of the fact that there is lack of other sources doesnt mean this is the correct one .

If I may ask , what is exactly your relation with Islam & Qu'ranic Arabic ?
 
Ahh Mr. Blackstoned......

About time you showed up to save your mirror image. Where have you been? learning Islam? Quran? oh, I am sorry, I forgot that you could have been Islamic Scholar :D . Well, since you are back... I am back, Just for you.


How is you other peacful religion? any progress? can you save us all muslims? can you please save us from the Great evil of Islam?
Please proivde me the Quran that *you* think is correct since you have seen the Quran by Uthman and before Uthman, then you have seen the Quran of Fatima and Before Fatima and you were also there when the Quran was written and when *real* Quran according to you was tampered and offcourse the Quran we are reading today is not correct. ( Oh there is so much that you know about the history of Islam and I would like to know as well just from you)

Let's Start Blackstoned from where you left. Shall we?
 
its Sall[/]ama with a (shadda) on the "lam" ....its a different root word from the one you mentioned earlier ...

Very fine , but how does that imply the one meaning of submission from the others ? The root is still SLM

You aint gonna tell me you're a Qu'ranic scholar , so where did you get this idea ?

as for the 'slave' thing...well thats what a 'muslim' is, arent you in arabic "abd-allah" ?

I already told you that Muslim means of Islam .
Abd Allah = servant of Allah not slave

If you would know Qu'ran you would understand how serving deals with actualizing potential . No "slave" has to do with this .

plus beeing a "submitter" means your enslavement to the religion....

Submitting is nowhere near enslavement . Submitting for one is 100% willing , while enslavement never is .

Also Deen aint nowhere near religion .

that does not change the fact that it mentioned no where that it is the only source of religous teachings muslims follow, instead, we see the verses i gave you.

And who mentioned that theydo not follow other sources than the Qu'ran , hey it goes even far beyond that if we are getting into sects . I know Muslims that follow the Bible even ....

That doesnt mean that they are right in doing so .

um eleborate.... i do not understand your position of them clearly...

If a passage contradicts Islam (through Qu'ran) it is dismissed as false .

what other sources of muhammad teachings that quran orders you to follow do you have out thee other than the hadiths?

You're not getting it . There are no other sources that would I have to follow to dismiss these sources as being false . Just because we have no alternative doesnt mean that it is truth .

as for my 'relation' , im an ex muslim.....

ex-muslim ? Why if I may ask ? Have you read the Qu'ran ? Can you read Classical ? Where are you from if I may ask , and what Muslim-family are you from ?

Im sorry If Im asking toomuch but Im really curious .
 
Hi Blackstone

no, the root is the one i gave you with the shaddah on the lam, 4 letters not three..and that one only have this meaning.
well any arabic speaker can know this..

No not every Arabic speaker can know it , not even any Arabic reader knows it , in fact nobody has any clue . The thing is that the only thing known is the difference in pronounciation , the additional meaning is very subjective . Those who have interests rather see it as submission as it forces a meaning that gives them more controll . The truth is however that there is absolutely no indication whatsoever that submission specifically is linked with this root . Can you also tell me what Taslima is then ?

but the word "abd" does mean slave...
anyway...this is not really that important....

It is very important , slave implies very different things .
Serving has Quranically a totally different meaning than slaving or being a slave .

that what exactly happen in the hadith classifiatin, if a hadith contradicts the quran it would be already classified as false..so where is the problem?

The problems is where the authority lays in classifying something as contradictory to Qu'ran . Maybe you accept another to tell you how it works without your questioning , I dont .

and what alternative for "teachings of muhammad" can you possibly think of other than his NARRATIONS and SAYINGS = hadiths?

Seems like you still dont get this . The fact that there ARE NO ALTERNATIVES doesnt make them authentic .

well i just found atheism more logical,

I dont think you studied Islam clearly enough then .

and religous scriptures (in general) with their mythology and fables

perhaps your interpertation of them is what got more in the way than their actual meaning .

as for my background i was sunni.

I mean culturally , are you Arabic ?

peace
 
Re: The middle way

Originally posted by Raithere
Flores: A simple ‘Who gives a fuck about Hadith’ is not really enough of an answer. Most of Islam does consider the Hadith almost as important as the Qur’an and without that critical eye I mentioned turned to interpretation within a cultural context it can be interpreted in an extremely hostile way. Simply denying it is no better of an answer than the response, ‘They weren’t real Christians’ that some Christians give regarding those that carried out the Inquisition.

~Raithere
Click to expand...

Raithere,
But it's the truth, Hadith means sayings and doings of a Prophet who was told by someone who heard it from another, who might have heard it from noone. It's a compilation of the life of the prophet. Someone could have heard that before the prophet went to the toilet, he said, I seek refuge from Satan, then it becomes a habit to do so. The authenticity of the Hadith is in question, and the concept of following the Prophet ways as a religious leader was a concept taught againest in the Quran.

Raithere, it's againest every teaching of Buhda, Jesus and Mohammed that we glorify them and follow their ways. Nomatter what the followers of Buhda tell me, I will think that they have completely missed Buhda's message when they decided to follow in the ways of Buhda to be enlightened. Buhda if he showed us anything was that every person must strive hard to find their purpose and way, and hanging from the tree from three days might be the way for one and not another, there is no cookie cuter or manual for salvation. Same goes for Prophet Muhamed, he was a human who lived a certain life, made good for his life and satisfied his purpose, but he didn't satisfy my purpose and me following in his foot steps doesn't get me any nearer to my purpose.
 
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