Islam: Muhammad as the Last Prophet

[Knife]

What kind of untrue Fox News stereotyping statement is this? Not all Palestineans send their children off to be suicide bombers and you know that :bugeye: Israel kills Palestinians DAILY without any real outcry from the "West" As for the people who do commit suicide bombings they arent behaving "Islamic" as we both know(Did you here that the last Bus bombing in Israel was thought to be done by the Israeli's?). It's interesting that in one statement you judge Jews as being successful for their achieving "worldly things"(even though its on the blood of alotta innocent people.....tell me again who benefited most from the US attacking Iraq?) yet you admonish the Palestinians for trying to achieve land(which was/is theirs) and "worldy things" I agree that Muslims should try to help them more (especially Jordan and Eygypt) but are you saying that the slaves(palestinians) should try to fight the slavemasters(Israeli's)? Answer me this Knife as a Muslim.....Is it more important to "sell out" in this life to achieve what we want or to be humble as Allah wants us to be for greater rewards in the next one?....salaam

to start, this is a religion of peace! you are letting anger cloud your judgement. "fear leads to anger, anger leads to hatred, hatred leads to the path of the darkside!"

there is no "sell out". it is just the honesty of the situation. and until muslims see it, they will go nowhere. where has what they have been doing in last 50 years got them? nowhere. then something must be wrong. it is very important you see this, to understand where i am coming from. i mentioned in my post that i am aware i am being harsh.

your last sentence "or to be humble"......you said it yourself. generally, muslims need discipline and education. specifically, the palestinians need it most. i did not say they are not getting killed. but during the first years of the prophet when the sahabah were being tortured and killed, did he call for war? it wasnt until many years later did he resort to war in defense of medinah, and even then it was with hesitation. furthermore, when asked once how he felt about quraish after all the torture, he responded "sad".....not angry, not mad, not vengeful.....but sad. but what happens today, muslims are tortured, so they in turn torture. there is wisdom behind patience.

now, in my opinion, muslims should backdown, count your losses, educate yourself and those around you, help yoursepf and those around you, then take steps from there. gain the desperately needed sympathy. true it is good to defend yourself, but it is better to suffer ignorance and smile!

sad to say this, but i have met many palestinians in the west; us, france, uk, germany, canada. they traveled, became educated, and stayed. they did not return to their homes to rebuild + educate, not even moved somewhere close like jordan/egypt i am not blaming them for doing so, that is their choice (even many of them will clearly say that their intention was to return but just never did). i knew i was going to get flack for what i wrote, but that is how i see it. i have my reasons.

to add, i am not saying that they have a right to be killed in their streets/the jewish people gained their status through legal means/it is wrong to defend oneself, quite the contrary. but it does not mean breaking the rules because others are. you said it youself, the end does not justify the means.

And THATS the key Knife the goverments(or more specifically its leaders) will be punished(and they are being punished) not the true God-fearing people

i agree. BUT, are you saying sit and do nothing, because their governments are responsible? why not rise against the governments rather than inoccent civilians? god will not change the situation one is in, until what is within is changed ....i am sure you have heard that before.

basically, what i am saying is muslims cannot expect the world to change around them. muslims must practise themselves what it is they are preaching.

have you read about times when people converted just by reason and logic? why the change in strategy?

 

[surenderer]

Knife,
'as-salâmu calaykum.....I love you as a brother but I feel as if you are "playing to the crowd" If I am speaking out of anger than please tell me what i have said that is wrong

to start, this is a religion of peace! you are letting anger cloud your judgement. "fear leads to anger, anger leads to hatred, hatred leads to the path of the darkside!"

I know Islam is a religion of peace but Allah(saws) says:

[22.39] Permission (to fight) is given to those upon whom war is made because they are oppressed, and most surely Allah is well able to assist them;

there is no "sell out". it is just the honesty of the situation. and until muslims see it, they will go nowhere. where has what they have been doing in last 50 years got them? nowhere. then something must be wrong. it is very important you see this, to understand where i am coming from. i mentioned in my post that i am aware i am being harsh.

Dude I know in history class they dont teach it but the Palestinians tried going to the International community for DECADES for help but(I agree that the muslim nations could have done better) but only in the 70's when they started hijacking airliners did the world start to pay attention.....whether there were other options still left is debateable but to say that they never tried any other means is wrong

i agree. BUT, are you saying sit and do nothing, because their governments are responsible? why not rise against the governments rather than inoccent civilians? god will not change the situation one is in, until what is within is changed ....i am sure you have heard that before.

What do you think would happen if the people in Jordan raised up against King Hussein? or in Eygpt? remember what happened when Bush Sr. promised to help the Iraqi's if they raised up against Hussein? they did and the US didnt help and the got massacred Do you really think that the West would let their friends get overthrown?Nope they would be labeled "terrorists" and get put down



Remember that nobody is suppose to like fighting and war and Islam is a religion of peace but we are given instructions of when and how we should war:

[2.216] Fighting is enjoined on you, and is an object of dislike to you; and it may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you love a thing while it is evil for you, and Allah knows, while you do not know.

 

[Knife]

we are given instructions of when and how we should war:
.

they are not following instructions.

I feel as if you are "playing to the crowd"

i find that amusing. you have not been the first to say such things. i am presenting to you my view. look around you, do you not see the reality of the situation?

but only in the 70's when they started hijacking airliners did the world start to pay attention

what attention are you talking about? the attention that will result in massacres? and where has that got the muslims? have you seen an improvement in the last 30 years? i dont. i see the situation getting much worse. more muslims are dying. sympathy is going down. just read half the posts on this forum.

What do you think would happen if the people in Jordan raised up against King Hussein? or in Eygpt?

you are correct. BUT, it is not king abdullah that would be doing the killing, it is his people. if these people were truly convinced, they wouldnt do it to begin with. why not convince them? remember logic and reason. there was a time when muslims were proud that all it took was a little reading and applying some logic for islam to make sense. muslims today have killed that!

you have made it very clear you beleive that you have a right to defend yourself (i believe this too), but do you not believe that forgivness is better?

my point is this, god has promised muslims victory if they struggle for him and only him. he also promised humiliation and embarrasment for those who dont. simple logic........muslims are not victorious.......they are doing it for the wrong reasons and with the wrong methods. once they get it right.....god will help. that, my friend, is reality.

btw, i didnt mean anger at me. i have read enough of your posts to know that . but, anger at the situation today is what leads to mistakes.