Islam is a bad religion...prove otherwise...

[marv]

Michael,

The purpose of this thread is not to slam or flame Islam,...

...or any religion...

I will stop posting in this thread when civility ends in this thread.

...and I feel the time has come. Goodbye.

 

[Michael]

Michael,...or any religion......and I feel the time has come. Goodbye.

Marv, feel free to write to me where exactly you think I have flamed Islam Xianty or Judaism to the point where you feel you must leave the debate. If you feel dear enough to you opinion, you can message me privately.

I think my questions are valid and my points are based on what I’ve read historically as well as what is the situation in modern day ME and Indonesia. So when you ask an open ended question: “Why is Islam Bad?” you don’t expect to get a detailed answer analyzing the situation before and after Islam in countries that have retained Islam as well as those that have not – with a comparison of countries that have never been Islamic? As Islam is a political institution as well as religious institution – don’t you expect it to be compared with other political institutions?

And finally, I’d assume it “BAD” must, by definition, be relative - therefore one would think it would be relative to the notions of what is morally correct “Today”. For example: Slavery Today is unacceptable but in the Past was acceptable.

 

[surenderer]

Michael,...or any religion......and I feel the time has come. Goodbye.

Indeed I agree....this thread was started between me and Marv to discuss opinions and misunderstandings yet as soon as the typical (not all but typical) atheists get involved we get:

Yeah, Muslims are fucking retarded (like most people).

Goodbye also argue about the evils of Islam among yourselves......(geeze these board moderators are lovely )

 

[surenderer]

Marv, feel free to write to me where exactly you think I have flamed Islam Xianty or Judaism to the point where you feel you must leave the debate. If you feel dear enough to you opinion, you can message me privately.

I think my questions are valid and my points are based on what I’ve read historically as well as what is the situation in modern day ME and Indonesia. So when you ask an open ended question: “Why is Islam Bad?” you don’t expect to get a detailed answer analyzing the situation before and after Islam in countries that have retained Islam as well as those that have not – with a comparison of countries that have never been Islamic? As Islam is a political institution as well as religious institution – don’t you expect it to be compared with other political institutions?

And finally, I’d assume it “BAD” must, by definition, be relative - therefore one would think it would be relative to the notions of what is morally correct “Today”. For example: Slavery Today is unacceptable but in the Past was acceptable.

One last thing......me and marv were discussing the RELIGION of Islam not it's leaders or past conquests etc......just as on these boards we got some atheists that are idiots and we have some that arent we cant summarize all of them by one over another......same thing with Islam. just because some Muslim leader ruled by iron fists or conquest how does this reflect upon a religion anymore than Hitler reflected upon Christianity. To say that nothing florished under Islam is ignoring Algebra (Arabic word) alchemy(arabic word) algorithm (arabic word) almanac (arabic word) azimuth (arabic word) caramel (arabic invention and word) carat (arabic weight system and word) cheque (arabic money system) coffee (first used in Yemen) garbage (arabic word borrowed) giraffe ( called Long necked antelope.in arabic) jar(called earthenware vase in arabic) zero (arabic) etc..... not to mention the Taj Mahal etc.....but your right Im sure that Muslims have never contributed anything to society....you dont have to respond cause Im done now...peace :m:

 

[Michael]

1)
There is a difference between people that speak the Arabic language, Muslims, and Islam.

2)
I wonder if this were a discussion about communism and I were to use examples say of

- communism as conceived under Stalin
- communism as conceived under Mao
- communism as conceived under Kim Jung Ill

and made comparison with other institutions used to rule people, such as:

- Religious
- Democratic
- Dictatorial

would I be in danger of having offended a communist on this board because I make the historical point that communism doesn’t work and that communist nations are stagnate cesspools? Instead what? I should say well well well MANY great inventions were made by people that speak Chinese that speak Korean that speak Russian that practiced communism ergo Communism is such a wondrous form of government.



The question was as broad as one can get – and presumably was meant to be DEBATED?

If the question is “What is BAD about communism?” OR “Why is communism BAD” then that of course that must be made relative to something else.

Yes, Surrender many Arabic Islamic peoples made great inventions when Islam was at the height of its power. Why was it a powerful nation of people? Did that have anything to do with Islam? If so what? I contended that it had to do with monopolizing the flow of goods between East and West. That of course brought immense wealth and with wealth comes a flourishing of culture – regardless of HOW that wealth comes about OR what sort of culture. It’s a universal phenomena. So we have to ask the HARD questions – AND THAT seemed to have put some peoples panties in a bunch – For Example, I asked: Why was it at it’s height this True Religion of God never forbade Slavery? One would think that an enlightened form of government would have. And surely if one was to contend that the religion itself is a reflection of the Almighty Creator in heaven – well then I’m going to hold it to higher standard and say it must have. BUT it didn’t – what does that say?

I feel I left a LOT of room for answers BUT Lets see - what was SO utterly defamatory?

How so?
How is Indonesia an example of Islam?
why are they now a democracy?
Why?
But how?
And what happened?
Why?
why did the Spanish finally banish it’s practice once they were able to free themselves from the Islamic system?
Why did the Greeks do the same?
Why did the Indians do the same?
Why?
Why would the people who lived under such the great and enlightened Islamic Religion rise up to get rid of it and almost all its precepts?
Weird huh?
Why?
In the last 1400 years why hasn’t Islamic countries become such wondrous paradises?
Why didn’t Islamic nations abandon the selling of Africans into slavery?

Yeah, I see your point, these are too tough of questions – shame on me. You are right in getting out of the kitchen.

With that ado.

 

[audible]

the thread title is more flaming, the anything micheal has said.
islam is a bad religion..prove otherwise...

 

[Bells]

Yes, Surrender many Arabic Islamic peoples made great inventions when Islam was at the height of its power. Why was it a powerful nation of people? Did that have anything to do with Islam?

They were a powerful nation of people because their armies were strong. Christianity, more specifically Catholicism, also had very powerful armies during the time. The States where each of these religions were strongest and the wealthiest and as a result, the more powerful States. They had the bigger and stronger armies and could conquer. As it is today and as it was in history, it was all politics and a grab for power and land.

I contended that it had to do with monopolizing the flow of goods between East and West. That of course brought immense wealth and with wealth comes a flourishing of culture – regardless of HOW that wealth comes about OR what sort of culture.

That's the exact point of its power.

For Example, I asked: Why was it at it’s height this True Religion of God never forbade Slavery? One would think that an enlightened form of government would have.

Because the traditional customs of the time allowed slavery. The West still hadn't reached that enlightened time hundreds of years later under the banner of a different religion. Islamic people were considered barbaric but the West practiced the same disgusting practices that we today consider human rights abuses. Slavery helped build the West, and give it its power and wealth. Hell, slavery still exists today in some parts of Africa. If they weren't enlightened at the time of Islam's infancy, what excuse did we have in the 18th century and what the hell kind of excuse do we have today?

And surely if one was to contend that the religion itself is a reflection of the Almighty Creator in heaven – well then I’m going to hold it to higher standard and say it must have. BUT it didn’t – what does that say?

But what does it say about any religion that exists today? As you have stated, religion is supposed to be a reflection of God, yet how many atrocities are committed under that God and in the guise of religion? Even today? Islam did not and has not cornered the market for members who have warped their religion to suit their own needs. South Africa is a predominantly Christian country, who's politicians were Christians, and yet they could still allow apartheid to continue for decades. Australia is a country that is predominantly Christian, with a Christian foundation, with a Government that recites the Lords Prayer before each sitting of Parliament, and yet we allow Aboriginals to live in complete and absolute after we've stolen their lands, tried to wipe them from the face of the Earth and then took their half caste children from them to try to breed them into the white population in the hope that the darker Aboriginals would die off in a couple of generations. The Church took part in the practices. Hell a priest did a better job at wiping out Tasmanian Aboriginals, where the Government had failed. What does that say about Christianity? Islam is not the only religion that shows a reflection of a God that one must raise an eyebrow at. All religions have their good and their bad side.

 

[maven]

Marv:
I think as a fellow athiest i was quite inquisitive as to the nature of religon and its purpose. I concluded that religon is more of a handbook on how to live life. if you pick up any self help book or actually read the bible or quran you would find that many of the examples are traverse metaphors for real life situations. Yes man has manipulated the words so that the holy scripts can apply to his personal life but that is the entire purpose. No religon has failed mankind, but in fact it is mankind who has failed religon. Of course we wouldn't be this organized without it. Of course now we can talk globally so i think alot of people have come to realize this as fact. Tell me though marv, what do you live for?