Is this an ethical style of management?

[Huggins293]

A store manager directs his/her assistant manager to reprimand a worker for poor performance. The assistant manager voices his/her disagreement with reprimanding the worker; he feels th4e worker exceeds expectations. The store manager insists that that the direction needs to be carried out, regardless. Furthermore, the store manager directs the assistant manager not to mention to the worker that the store manager directed him/her(assistant manager) to reprimand the worker. Do you find the store manager’s directions unethical?



I find them unethical on the grounds that the store manager is provoking the assistant manager to present him/herself in a dishonest manner. She or he will be tempted to give the impression that assistant manager’s reasons for conducting the reprimand was based on his/her conviction rather than the conviction of the store manager.

 

[redarmy11]

Welcome to the modern way of doing business. Your store manager sucks.

But, then again, you shouldn't have been naughty. What have you been up to, exactly?

 

[Huggins293]

Naughty?

Welcome to the modern way of doing business. Your store manager sucks.

But, then again, you shouldn't have been naughty. What have you been up to, exactly?

Me naughty. Hey dude I am just telling it like it is. It's shady. There is no other way to put it.

 

[Huggins293]

Not a good Pattern

Welcome to the modern way of doing business. Your store manager sucks.

But, then again, you shouldn't have been naughty. What have you been up to, exactly?

This is very common in a very well-known corporation, a disgruntled employee who is articulate can make them seriously pay. They really don't need bad publicity.

 

[Prince_James]

They cannot make you pay for this.

 

[Baron Max]

A store manager directs his/her assistant manager to reprimand a worker for poor performance. The assistant manager voices his/her disagreement with reprimanding the worker. The store manager insists that that the direction needs to be carried out, regardless. Furthermore, the store manager directs the assistant manager not to mention to the worker that the store manager directed him/her(assistant manager) to reprimand the worker. Do you find the store manager’s directions unethical?

Just curious ....would you expect that the CEO of, say, Sony or Ford Motor Company fly to the location just to reprimand an employee? No, you probably don't.

But yet you can't take the same concept and apply it to this case. Why not? Why do you think the manager should reprimand an employee personally? Or, if the manager feels the employee deserves a reprimand, that he shouldn't make the man's "immediate" supervisor do it?

I'm slightly confused by your idea of "ethics" in this regard. Care to explain?

Baron Max

 

[Huggins293]

Immediate supervisor CAN do it but...

But yet you can't take the same concept and apply it to this case. Why not? Why do you think the manager should reprimand an employee personally? Or, if the manager feels the employee deserves a reprimand, that he shouldn't make the man's "immediate" supervisor do it?

I do agree the store manager generally should delegate reprimands to his or her assistant. However, if the assistant strongly disagrees with the reprimand, the assistant manager has the right to mention that he/she was instructed by his/her store manager. If the store manager forbids the assistant from mentioning this, the assisant's integrity is in jeopardy. Suppose the assistant has mentioned repeatedly that this worker exceeded expectations. The worker will wonder why all of a sudden he/she is reprimand for performance. A decent store manager takes in account all of these factors.

 

[Huggins293]

Sure she can

They cannot make you pay for this.

Sure she can. Most people I explain this to call it shady! The news media would love to hear rumors like this, especially rumors about companies who promote themselves as ethical, fair and honest

 

[Huggins293]

Just curious ....would you expect that the CEO of, say, Sony or Ford Motor Company fly to the location just to reprimand an employee? No, you probably don't.

But yet you can't take the same concept and apply it to this case. Why not? Why do you think the manager should reprimand an employee personally? Or, if the manager feels the employee deserves a reprimand, that he shouldn't make the man's "immediate" supervisor do it?

I'm slightly confused by your idea of "ethics" in this regard. Care to explain?

Baron Max

There is a lack of integrity in this case. This is clearly demonstrated by the store manager abusing his/her authority by forbidding the assistant mentioning that he/she was instructed to reprimand the worker. Yet, it is the essential reason why the assistant is reprimanding the worker. The worker will probably ask the assistant why she is reprimanded for perfomance when the assistant has mentioned that she exceeded expecations. How should he answer this question? There is no way to justify it; it is dishonesty to the core.

 

[Prince_James]

Huggins293:

People do not care about relatively minor things like this. If there was a rat pissing in the kitchen, or someone was pocketing funds, that'd be different.

 

[Baron Max]

There is a lack of integrity in this case. This is clearly demonstrated by the store manager abusing his/her authority by forbidding the assistant mentioning that he/she was instructed to reprimand the worker. ....

I personally think that your ideals of ethics needs a good dash of realism and human nature.

The worker will probably ask the assistant why she is reprimanded for perfomance when the assistant has mentioned that she exceeded expecations. How should he answer this question?

Why does he have to answer it?

It's one thing to hope that everything in life should be perfect, but to actually expect it is to be .....ahh, fanatical?

Baron Max

 

[Bells]

You can always advise the employee that if they are unhappy with your reprimand or with the manner in which you delivered it or the reasons behind it, that they are free to approach the manager themselves with any such concern.


But really, aren't you taking this a bit seriously? This is how it is in the real world. We are at times forced into doing something we don't want to do or feel is right. If you aren't happy about your treatment, file a complaint with higher management. As for threatening to make them pay. Pay what exactly? The manager delegated his/her responsibilities to you. Now you must deal with it. It's how it's done in the big bad world.

 

[mountainhare]

Bells:

We are at times forced into doing something we don't want to do or feel is right

I'm sure the Nazi soldiers were saying that to themselves as they pushed those Jews and Slavs into the gas chambers!

Furthermore, the store manager directs the assistant manager not to mention to the worker that the store manager directed him/her(assistant manager) to reprimand the worker. Do you find the store manager’s directions unethical?

Yes, of course it's unethical, and demonstrates a lack of integrity. It's also poor work ethic... it may generate ill feeling between the employees.

The answer to your dilemma is simple, however. Simply reprimand the worker, but clearly state that you aren't the one who has a problem with his performance. If he asks who does, just point to the ceiling.

 

[Baron Max]

The answer to your dilemma is simple, however. Simply reprimand the worker, but clearly state that you aren't the one who has a problem with his performance. If he asks who does, just point to the ceiling.

But that's also unethical, because it undermines the authority and respect of higher management ...which, essentially, is the company image to most employees.

Thus doing it this way could actually, potentially, cause widespread problems with all of the employees, not just one! Surely that would be more unethical than to chance the loss of only one employee?

Baron Max

 

[redarmy11]

Yes, God forbid that the mindless automatons should realise that the whole deal is a sham, that their jobs are cack and that they're working for peanuts.

 

[mountainhare]

Baron:

But that's also unethical, because it undermines the authority and respect of higher management ...which, essentially, is the company image to most employees.

Huh? Since when was it unethical to tell the truth? Ever since you first started posting on this forum, you've never shut up about your right to speak the truth, even if it may upset others.

The fact of the matter is that the higher management DID ask to criticize an excellent employee, and the DID ask someone else to do their dirty work. They also asked the employee to lie by omission.

Management has undermined its own authority and respect.

Thus doing it this way could actually, potentially, cause widespread problems with all of the employees, not just one! Surely that would be more unethical than to chance the loss of only one employee?

So it's unethical to point out to a worker that they are being exploited?

Interesting. Now I know why Communism was (and still is) so popular. When employers pull this shit on their employees, I'd want to rise up as well.

 

[Baron Max]

Baron: Huh? Since when was it unethical to tell the truth?

You think about that one, okay? Don't just make a quick judgement ...think about it.

I can think of several examples right off the top of my head. Give it some thought, but do so without your rigid ideals of "ethics".

The fact of the matter is that the higher management DID ask to criticize an excellent employee, and the DID ask someone else to do their dirty work. They also asked the employee to lie by omission.

And your point is ......???

So it's unethical to point out to a worker that they are being exploited?

Unethical by whose standards? You seem to be under the misconception that "ethics" is, somehow, universal. It ain't.

Baron Max

 

[Huggins293]

Thanks for responding

Bells:



I'm sure the Nazi soldiers were saying that to themselves as they pushed those Jews and Slavs into the gas chambers!



Yes, of course it's unethical, and demonstrates a lack of integrity. It's also poor work ethic... it may generate ill feeling between the employees.

The answer to your dilemma is simple, however. Simply reprimand the worker, but clearly state that you aren't the one who has a problem with his performance. If he asks who does, just point to the ceiling.

LOL, thanks for a correct response, but so many upper level managers love to justify this behavior.

 

[Baron Max]

LOL, thanks for a correct response, but so many upper level managers love to justify this behavior.

And aren't you also seeking "justification" for your own ideals and sense of ethics?

Baron Max

 

[Huggins293]

Unethical by whose standards? You seem to be under the misconception that "ethics" is, somehow, universal. It ain't.

Baron Max

Okay you're right; we can not determine if it is unethical. If that is the case, I will advise assistants to disobey those types of intructions.