Trekkies will remember this episode where Spock speaks of the Organians as having evolved into creatures of pure energy, pure thought. Is that the finish line for evolution or is it just a good sci-fi story? How far can evolution go? Are there limits?
Is there an end for evolution?
- Thread starter PsychoticEpisode
- Start date
I think that evolution can't make unreasonable jumps. Now the question would be what is an unreasonable jump.
I don't know.
At one point in evolution we might have thought that multicellular life was an unreasonable jump. But then the bridge got crossed.
I don't know.
At one point in evolution we might have thought that multicellular life was an unreasonable jump. But then the bridge got crossed.
How would you define "pure energy"? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's a meaningless phrase. It is my understanding that consciousness is an emergent phenomenon of interactions within certain very complex systems, such as brains. I don't see how consciousness could be supported without a physical medium, however exotic that medium might be.
Laika said:
Hey, its just a litle sci-fi. Let me put it another way.... We consider ourselves the penultimate of Earthly evolution. Is it critical for the human race to survive since there may not be enough time for another intelligent earthbound species to evolve OR have we stagnated evolutionary-wise OR is there another animal here on Earth that will overtake us in the intelligence department given enuf time? Any ideas on what futuristic humans will look like? Have any studies been done to try and determine if any noticeable changes have taken place over the last few thousand years?
RoyLennigan
Registered Senior Member
there is virtually no end to evolution, but that doesnt mean that it isn't possible. within a closed system, i think it would be possible for the ecosystem to attain balance with a being that has reached perfect adaptability for its environment. though the probability is quite slim.
there is also the idea that life is just another aspect of universal (or multi-universal) evolution, and will continue to evolve such that life is eventually phased out by the presence/evolution of something with a greater survivability.
there is also the idea that life is just another aspect of universal (or multi-universal) evolution, and will continue to evolve such that life is eventually phased out by the presence/evolution of something with a greater survivability.
Would it stop then even?
I say this because a stable environment and large population will not stop the emergence of new mutations.
I say this because a stable environment and large population will not stop the emergence of new mutations.
probably, however due to the large population and no selective pressure (and further assuming that there is free breeding) it is likely that new mutations get diluted rather fast, so that overall gene pool remains fairly stable.
Well, but you are right. If mutations still occur it is not a perfect (Hardy-Weinberg) equilibrium so that after a while new allels will be introduced and might accumulate hence changing allel frequency.
Well, but you are right. If mutations still occur it is not a perfect (Hardy-Weinberg) equilibrium so that after a while new allels will be introduced and might accumulate hence changing allel frequency.
Yes, and you never know what new mutations will do. There could be one that sweeps through the population for a certain reason. Especially in the light that no organism is perfectly adapted to an environment. Usually they are adapted enough to cope with the environment at hand.
Maybe it is an essence of the evolutionary process. That things are never perfect. Change is always around the corner although most of the times stability seems to be the preferred mode of operation. But maybe this phase can be considered the 'waiting' period for 'change' to happen.
Hence the limitation of species survival. Extinction is part of evolution because things cannot be inherently stable.
just my thought of the moment. I might change my mind after thinking about it for a few days.
Maybe it is an essence of the evolutionary process. That things are never perfect. Change is always around the corner although most of the times stability seems to be the preferred mode of operation. But maybe this phase can be considered the 'waiting' period for 'change' to happen.
Hence the limitation of species survival. Extinction is part of evolution because things cannot be inherently stable.
just my thought of the moment. I might change my mind after thinking about it for a few days.
RoyLennigan
Registered Senior Member
please explain, i'm at a loss to understand your implications.gukarma said:
CharonZ might not agree, but she has hit on the Scond Law of Thermodynamics by saying that "evolution will only stop in perfect equilibrium....no changes in environment."CharonZ said:
This is an extremely difficult concept to grasp. Organisms (animals) are created out of disorder into ordered systems (ordered structures). Unfortunately the only eventual outcome is death: leading to an even more disordered system. The more disordered systems you obtain, the closer you get towards a final equilibrium (no disorder at all to organize into an ordered system). This then is the ultimate equilibrium: there can no longer be any changes in the environment. There is no more disorder to lead towards ordered structures. At this point, you can no longer even have random chance events (mutations) that lead to evolution, because the equilibrium of the universe is so random already that they can no longer "combine" into chance events or mutations or evolutionary structures: life organizes disorder into ordered life that quickly leads to the ultimate disorganization (death) which is the ultimate in equilibrium in the closed-system of the universe.
spuriousmonkey said:
I believe that to be true but there might be a couple of catches.
Here's my thoughts (for what they're worth).
With a fairly stable environment like we already have, there's no real pressure (you can read that as "need") for another step in human evolution. We aren't dodging predators, food supplies are within easy reach (in most countries), we don't need any physical advantage (in terms of strength) to compete for mates, and so forth.
In fact, as I understand it, we have actually laid the foundation for de-evolution - going backwards. Since medical science has made it possible for weaker physical attributes to survive (things like sickle-cell, free-bleeders, mild mental problems) and be carried into the next generation (and forever forward from there), we would seem to be slipping backwards. Without medical intervention these traits would vanish - they would die out. But we've provided ourselves with the means to not only retain them but to allow them to spread throughout the population.
The only way they will go away now is through genetic manipulation and that's something that's still FAR from being accepted all across the board.
Well here's a thought process. How about WE will soon all go into the next stage of evolution. Listen, the sun has everything to do with us living and breathing from the start, and the cycles of the sun has had an immense impact on evolution. We are approaching Solar cycle #24 and it is written that "a new age begins" I believe we are going into some "next level" of evolution at this time. What that means is everybody's guess but we are about to find out.
It could be a new "spiritual awareness" an "ice age" or some other "ancient cycle" but EVERY religion agrees on one thing, We are CHANGING. As is the
earth going through "earth changes" a very ancient cycle that goes on for millions of years! evolution continues!!
It could be a new "spiritual awareness" an "ice age" or some other "ancient cycle" but EVERY religion agrees on one thing, We are CHANGING. As is the
earth going through "earth changes" a very ancient cycle that goes on for millions of years! evolution continues!!