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Is The Theory of Relativity Fatally Flawed?
- Thread starter MacM
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Paul T said:MacM,
Still waiting for your post about the page number in that HP's paper about "They deliberately use LR which requires a preferred referance frame and eliminates the reciprocity inherent in SR". Are you going to give us some light on that anytime soon?
I can't help it if you can't read english and can't connect dots. a preschooler task.
You simply cannot claim SR in the GPS system since its choice of frames is prohibited in SR. The choice of frames makes it LR based. So they discuss that issue of course not. Everybody is trying to walk lightly. Just call it relativity and nobody will notice. BS. I noticed.
Now if you choose to respond I will only reply if you address the LR/SRand frames issue. Nothing after that can be discussed before that is established.
And you can not continue to claim this. Explain why, or stop posting your lies.You simply cannot claim SR in the GPS system since its choice of frames is prohibited in SR.
MacM said:I can't help it if you can't read english and can't connect dots. a preschooler task.
You had been shown that on page 11 of the paper, it said clearly that GPS clocks were calibrated based on SR and GR. The paper also shown with numbers that clock rate different effect due to GR (opposite to effect due to SR) was more dominant and hence the correction to the satelite clock was to slow it down. It said nothing about LR, not a word. Since you said it did, I asked you again to show us on which page it said so.
There is no dots to connect, just tell us where it said LR is the one they really concern about. Please also show us, if you wish, that the effect due to LR makes the satelite clocks to tick faster so they were constructed to tick slower than earth clocks.
MacM said:You simply cannot claim SR in the GPS system since its choice of frames is prohibited in SR. The choice of frames makes it LR based. So they discuss that issue of course not. Everybody is trying to walk lightly. Just call it relativity and nobody will notice. BS. I noticed.
I thought they made reference to SR and GR. I have seen no LR or something similar.
MacM said:Now if you choose to respond I will only reply if you address the LR/SRand frames issue. Nothing after that can be discussed before that is established.
Your demand is unfair. I (and other) have shown you that on page 11 of the paper, they said SR and GR were the ones. You claimed LR was the one need concern here. I asked you, on which page the paper said so. Page 14 or 20 or, whatever...just give us a number. It is that simple.
Paul T said:You had been shown that on page 11 of the paper, it said clearly that GPS clocks were calibrated based on SR and GR. The paper also shown with numbers that clock rate different effect due to GR (opposite to effect due to SR) was more dominant and hence the correction to the satelite clock was to slow it down. It said nothing about LR, not a word. Since you said it did, I asked you again to show us on which page it said so.
There is no dots to connect, just tell us where it said LR is the one they really concern about. Please also show us, if you wish, that the effect due to LR makes the satelite clocks to tick faster so they were constructed to tick slower than earth clocks.
I thought they made reference to SR and GR. I have seen no LR or something similar.
Your demand is unfair. I (and other) have shown you that on page 11 of the paper, they said SR and GR were the ones. You claimed LR was the one need concern here. I asked you, on which page the paper said so. Page 14 or 20 or, whatever...just give us a number. It is that simple.
Continued denial and attempts to claim LR success for SR is a waste of everyones time. Dig a hole and bury Einstien's Relativity.. End of discussion since you do nothing but continue to make false fiat statements. Page 11 say absolutely nothng about SR. SR is not the only relativity in the world. By definition the relativie used is LR not SR.
Sorry your BS doesn't stick. You are being shown the fool you are.
Attantion to all people on the Earth!
In November 20, 2004, Saturday, at 9:37 am the Grate scientist MacM has discovered that
“Continued denial and attempts to claim LR success for SR is a waste of everyones time. Dig a hole and bury Einstien's Relativity.. End of discussion since you do nothing but continue to make false fiat statements. Page 11 say absolutely nothng about SR. SR is not the only relativity in the world. By definition the relativie used is LR not SR.”
And LR is nothing else as the following three assertions:
1. Rested Ether fulfils entire Universe,
2. There is no limit for speed of material bodies;
3. There are no Lorentz transformations.
King (SRT) is dead, long live to the new King – MacM’s LR!
The Grate scientist MacM has also discovered a huge act of the economical terrorism against USA!
MacM has discovered that in 1971 there was found out the fact that SRT is a wrong theory. He discovered Secret United States Naval Observatory internal report of some very safisticated scientist, Mr. Hafele, who has reported to Navy that the experiments are shown that " the time gained by any one of these clocks is indicative of anything .... the difference between theory and experiment is disturbing."
But “the Official Report was publised showing an almost accurate proof of time dilation predicted by Relativity”. Therefore, the NAVU-s “report was faked”.
So, in spite of Hafele and others timely warning, 5 Presidents, together with Congress of the USA had continued to spend billions of dollars to support and develop contemporary Physics, which is totally based upon this absolutely wrong theory. Billions have been wasted on Relativity but not by Congress and the President knowing it or that some low level, low life's (Relativists) wanted to make history and doctored the test data. It is the worse wasting of taxpayers money and resources of USA. We should stop this terroristical conspiracy against American people, President and the Congress of the USA!
Go on MacM posted thread and vote against SRT! Vote for UniKEF!!!
In November 20, 2004, Saturday, at 9:37 am the Grate scientist MacM has discovered that
“Continued denial and attempts to claim LR success for SR is a waste of everyones time. Dig a hole and bury Einstien's Relativity.. End of discussion since you do nothing but continue to make false fiat statements. Page 11 say absolutely nothng about SR. SR is not the only relativity in the world. By definition the relativie used is LR not SR.”
And LR is nothing else as the following three assertions:
1. Rested Ether fulfils entire Universe,
2. There is no limit for speed of material bodies;
3. There are no Lorentz transformations.
King (SRT) is dead, long live to the new King – MacM’s LR!
The Grate scientist MacM has also discovered a huge act of the economical terrorism against USA!
MacM has discovered that in 1971 there was found out the fact that SRT is a wrong theory. He discovered Secret United States Naval Observatory internal report of some very safisticated scientist, Mr. Hafele, who has reported to Navy that the experiments are shown that " the time gained by any one of these clocks is indicative of anything .... the difference between theory and experiment is disturbing."
But “the Official Report was publised showing an almost accurate proof of time dilation predicted by Relativity”. Therefore, the NAVU-s “report was faked”.
So, in spite of Hafele and others timely warning, 5 Presidents, together with Congress of the USA had continued to spend billions of dollars to support and develop contemporary Physics, which is totally based upon this absolutely wrong theory. Billions have been wasted on Relativity but not by Congress and the President knowing it or that some low level, low life's (Relativists) wanted to make history and doctored the test data. It is the worse wasting of taxpayers money and resources of USA. We should stop this terroristical conspiracy against American people, President and the Congress of the USA!
Go on MacM posted thread and vote against SRT! Vote for UniKEF!!!
And this for Paul T, Persol, JamesR and others.
After all what you had from MacM the continuation of discussion with him is meaningless. Think about that... Only your replies still support his activity. Give him a brake: he will make dozen posts ... to himself and will go to find another Forum where people do not know him and where he can satisfy his ego starting all over again...
After all what you had from MacM the continuation of discussion with him is meaningless. Think about that... Only your replies still support his activity. Give him a brake: he will make dozen posts ... to himself and will go to find another Forum where people do not know him and where he can satisfy his ego starting all over again...
geistkiesel
Valued Senior Member
Yuriy you are given a chance o directly attack MacM's science instead you go through your public relations litany. MacM was clear enough about the GPS which has been consistently shown to us by SR supporters as additional "proof" for the claim of SR viability. Now someone challenging SR by using GPS where SR was shown to be discarded in coordinating satellite acitivity using a preferred frame of reference.Yuriy said:And this for Paul T, Persol, JamesR and others.
After all what you had from MacM the continuation of discussion with him is meaningless. Think about that... Only your replies still support his activity. Give him a brake: he will make dozen posts ... to himself and will go to find another Forum where people do not know him and where he can satisfy his ego starting all over again...
Now what are the defenses of the SR community? Propaganda and character assaination, or attempts at it is what you feed us. Don't you have an answer in your list of formulae to enlighten us?
Geistkiesel
Geistkiesel, MacM doesn't have any science backing him up to attack. Eventually he'll admit that GPS does account for all the things relativity says will happen. His main issue is one of 'an absolute reference frame', which GPS doesn't call for. Just because you decide to use a frame of reference, doesn't make it absoulte. It just makes it the way you solve that particular problem.
Yuriy said:And this for Paul T, Persol, JamesR and others.
After all what you had from MacM the continuation of discussion with him is meaningless. Think about that... Only your replies still support his activity. Give him a brake: he will make dozen posts ... to himself and will go to find another Forum where people do not know him and where he can satisfy his ego starting all over again...
We note that you have no technical rebuttal and that your ego has been hurt.
Yuriy said:And this for Paul T, Persol, JamesR and others.
After all what you had from MacM the continuation of discussion with him is meaningless. Think about that... Only your replies still support his activity. Give him a brake: he will make dozen posts ... to himself and will go to find another Forum where people do not know him and where he can satisfy his ego starting all over again...
Damn I was wrong. He still is egotistical. But still ignorant.
geistkiesel said:Yuriy you are given a chance o directly attack MacM's science instead you go through your public relations litany. MacM was clear enough about the GPS which has been consistently shown to us by SR supporters as additional "proof" for the claim of SR viability. Now someone challenging SR by using GPS where SR was shown to be discarded in coordinating satellite acitivity using a preferred frame of reference.
Now what are the defenses of the SR community? Propaganda and character assaination, or attempts at it is what you feed us. Don't you have an answer in your list of formulae to enlighten us?
Geistkiesel
You at least seem to understand the actual situation. Those working in GPS deliberately never mention SR but only refer to relativity. Why rock the boat.
And? SR accounts for the result... what's your point?Those working in GPS deliberately never mention SR but only refer to relativity.
Persol said:Geistkiesel, MacM doesn't have any science backing him up to attack. Eventually he'll admit that GPS does account for all the things relativity says will happen. His main issue is one of 'an absolute reference frame', which GPS doesn't call for. Just because you decide to use a frame of reference, doesn't make it absoulte. It just makes it the way you solve that particular problem.
Your side stepping doesn't alter the facts. The referance frame selected is not an SR referance frame. It is prohibited by SR. It does indeed prove relativity LR not SR.
At least we no longer need to be concerned about both clocks having to run slow. We have been smart enough to dump SR and use LR. When might we expect you to join the 21st century? 1905 technology is in fact quite antiquated.
Persol said:And? SR accounts for the result... what's your point?
Are you really that lost or are you just argueing for the sake of arguement?
I have pointed out several times that SR employed the mathematics of LR. So certainly the adjustment made is in agreement with SR. However the fact that you would like everyone to ignore is that SR cannot function in accordance with its claims of reversability of views where either observer is at rest and the other is in motion. LR produces this form of result. SR does not.
The selection of the earth's axis's as a locally absolute preferred referance frame makes it LR not SR. This form of frame is specifically prohibited in SR so you can no longer claim this proves SR. It doesn't and for a good reason.
SR is a mathematical contrivance based on nothing physical. So its result do not have to be realistic. The error being made is trying to declare a mathematically based concept as being physical reality.
Perhaps you could point out why?MacM said:The referance frame selected is not an SR referance frame. It is prohibited by SR.
Persol said:And? SR accounts for the result... what's your point?
Just because relativity is used and for a particular calculation SR might agree, that doesn't prove SR because each theory is based on certain conditions to fullfill their claims.
On the whole the choice of referance frames precludes SR and mandates an LR view.
SR uses the LR formula for time dilation so one would expect the results to agree. BUt that does not prove SR what would prove SR would be to extablish a GPS system where the orbit clock and an earth bound surface clock are the two points of referance and establish a relative velocity frame in SR.
A frame where one could say that it was the orbiting clock that is at rest and that the earth and earth clock were in motion and where such a view would agree that the earth clock was running slower.
It can be easily seen that no such system can be built where the view point of the observer will cause the other clock to run slow. HINT: SR dowsn't work in physical reality, it is a mathematical circle jerk.
LR using the original time dilation formula and the local preferred frame view (prohibited by SR) works.
There can be no further arguement on which relativity is realitiy and which is arbitrary mathematical convience.
Persol said:Perhaps you could point out why?
I could but since it has already been made clear so many times, I prefer you stipulate your choice of frames and using SR sshow an operating GPS system.
Since you claim GPS proves SR that should be a piece of cake. Just keep in mind after you do your clock calibrations, I will want to be able to switch views between the two SR frames and see the system continue to remain synchronized.
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I suppose you forgot about the whole twin paradox thing?I will want to be able to switch views between the two SR frames and see the system continue to remain synchronized.
http://www3.ltu.edu/~s_schneider/courses/contemp/minkowski.shtml
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Persol said:I suppose you forgot about the whole twin paradox thing?
http://www3.ltu.edu/~s_schneider/courses/contemp/minkowski.shtml
I haven't forgotten anything. I especially haven't forgotten my challenge which is for you to pick whatever referance you chose and build a GPSystem based on SR that works and supports all the claims of SR.
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