But that isn't the situation, is it? According to the doctrine, there is a Final Judgement. There is no continuous cycle of improvement. It's, "Do as I say or else. If you miss the deadline, there's no more forgiveness."
Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?
- Thread starter Greatest I am
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That's the usual copout. Why is it important to know one from the other?
If you mean deadline , you are dead I assume there might be life . Take the example of Lazarus and the rich man . Lazarus went to the bosom of Abraham , but the rich man did not die , only his life was miserable
Since even apes have a sense of right and wrong, I think we've always known.
No, I mean deadline - as I said - in relation to the Final Judgement. There is a point where God's forgiveness stops.
Yazata
Valued Senior Member
I don't think so. Call it what you like, but people suffer, there's something within most people that's dissatisfied. There's this sense that something isn't right. Some consult religious clergy, others enter psychological counseling. They drink or use drugs. They rush around madly, hoping to get laid. They buy things, patronize entertainment, or try to become rich or powerful.
No.
Apes have a sense of right and wrong? Are you certain that's not just a social construct between apes?
So we know what is right and what is wrong. Certainly those distinctions play a role in people's lives. And I think it goes back to the notion of free will. Possibly evil exists as a choice that everyone must consider.
A sense of right and wrong is part of our social construct, and part of the social constructs of apes as well. Tests have shown they have an inherent sense of fairness - and they apply it even when it means they get less food or other benefits. That indicates an ability to judge right from wrong. Indeed, in one test, chimpanzees playing a version of an "ultimatum game" the chimps showed a sense of fairness very similar to that of human children.
Well of course every choice has its various consequences. But why would God punish us for making the "wrong" choices? Where's the free will in that?
exchemist
Valued Senior Member
I rather like this. It means that chimps too have eaten - or slightly nibbled - the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and they too could be taken, theologically, as having a slight trace of Original Sin (the predisposition to be selfish and NOT apply the socially constructed principles of fairness).
Again, I can't answer the question.
It doesnt and thats also the problem. Whatever this is, the problem isnt so much peoples choices, its how it affects others and how grossly unfair it can get.
If there is a 'good' god, then it would be the part of us that does care about right from wrong or trying to be fair out of goodwill, compassion, respect etc. People have or do this to varying degrees depending on person. Thats also the problem, they can really hurt someone and there are no moral consequences as in a god strike down a rapist or murderer or asshole etc. The sense of right and wrong comes from innately so there is the equal reaction or motive of backlash or revenge. The problem here is its not just one individual having beef with another. Just as there are those who are more fair minded, there are many who arent or wont and support that as well so you cant or wont get fairness or justice in some or many cases. In other words, there are plenty of assholes and they operate that way. And god doesnt care unless you consider that small little candle or voice inside of us which knows right from wrong. Some dont care and god does nothing about it. We care or god just as good or evil is completely dependent on us to manifest it.
If you have the spirit of God you don't have to worry about salvation, So ask God for the holy spirit and you will have no worry.
What if he pretends not to exist?
The fact is that God is evil.
I think that God is evil because he tortures people for all eternity for finite crimes they have commited and finite crimes committed during a finite lifetime should not result in infinite torture.
Instead of sending people to Hell God could have shown people the error of their ways and simply forgive them. But no God doesn't forgive you, instead he gives you infinite torture in Hell.
Also God very probably does not exist either because people who have died did not come back to life again so this really hints to me that there is very probably no life after death and therefore also no God.
I think that God is evil because he tortures people for all eternity for finite crimes they have commited and finite crimes committed during a finite lifetime should not result in infinite torture.
Instead of sending people to Hell God could have shown people the error of their ways and simply forgive them. But no God doesn't forgive you, instead he gives you infinite torture in Hell.
Also God very probably does not exist either because people who have died did not come back to life again so this really hints to me that there is very probably no life after death and therefore also no God.
Uh, but hasn't he done exactly that? Not certain whether you have read the Bible...
Do you know how life was made ? In the beginning earth was covered with water and under God's command a separation of land and waser have taken place.
God have created the earth as a habitat for organisms with life and man the final creation . God give man the authority over the earth and all the animals . God give guidance to man but we have chosen not to accept them , so we have chosen the consequence upon us . Yashua " said I did not come to condemn the world , but to save , the he said our not accepting his teaching will destroy ourself .