Is prostitution wrong?

You equated both with slavery...and then went on a rant about how we are not living in heaven.

Thats not much of a conclusion...considering the vast difference between slavery and consensual manual labour.

If you hate it so much why not simply refuse to benefit from the manual labour of others in your society, as a form of protest. Of course, this would include giving up many things...like food.

i haven't "ranted" about anything, and have not mentioned anything about heaven at all. a realization does not require a segregation from society, and it's no solution according to what i believe. i believe that the meaning of life is communion.

imo, prostitution is probably more degrading than some other professions simply because it involves an intimate physical act, and i think it's shown that sexual and physical degradation (abuse) is very traumatizing. but with that said, i think that society is so entirely fucked up, that singling out this particular profession among a host of other things is really just splitting hairs.
 
You're talking about the Paleolithic Era, when we lived in small extended-family units. Everyone had known, trusted and cared for everyone else since birth. We are a pack-social species and our pack-social instinct served us very well in those days.

Of course hunter-gatherers never have a food surplus so they're always one bad year away from a famine. So the down side of our instinctive Paleolithic morality was that we regarded other clans as competitors for scarce resources. If they intruded on our precious territory violence was likely.

The Agricultural Revolution allowed us to grow our own food, requiring us to build permanent settlements. Economies of scale and division of labor made it attractive to invite other clans to live with us, but this required overriding our instincts and learning to live in harmony and cooperation with people we hadn't known intimately from birth.

Civilization took this one step further. Building cities with trading networks resulted in a bounty of food as well as man-made artifacts like furniture, pottery, clothing, musical instruments and works of art. But it required us to live in harmony and cooperation with strangers. This goes completely against our instincts. To help us deal with this unnatural way of life, we developed many new institutions such as laws and a social hierarchy, which evolved into government, and many new technologies such as money and recordkeeping, which evolved into written language. This imposed order on us, making us, artificially, herd-social instead of pack social: treating anonymous strangers with a minimal level of respect

But all of this happened in a mere twelve thousand years, and this is not enough time for a species with a 15-25 year breeding cycle to evolve new instincts to adapt to it. We're not bacteria, who go through several generations in a day and whose evolution can keep pace with their environment. Deep down inside, we're all still cavemen, regarding strangers with suspicion rather than love and harmony. The proof of this is that every so often one of us reverts; his stifled inner caveman rebels and strikes out, committing an act that would have been natural and survival-oriented in the Paleolithic Era, but today is regarded as anti-social, or downright criminal. Occasionally, encouraged by the Stone Age religions that are still among us with their "we're better than everybody else" mandate directly from their gods, entire communities of humans rise up in violent confrontation with their neighbors, overwhelming these institutions of imposed harmony. If you're concerned about prostitution, how do you feel about war?

You're going to have to give our species another ten thousand years or more, before our instincts evolve to keep up with our new social organization. In the meantime we absolutely need all of these artificial buttresses that keep civilization running, such as money and laws.

Of course civilization, this artificial super-organism we have created, of which we are the cells, evolves at a much faster rate than biological organisms. By the time we've outgrown our inner cavemen, our social structure will be way ahead of us and we'll still need artificial constraints to live within it.

no fraggle, i'm talking about the immanent kingdom of christ.
 
i believe that the meaning of life is communion...but with that said, I think that society is so entirely fucked up, that singling out this particular profession among a host of other things is really just splitting hairs.
Well if you believe in the ideal of communion, but hate humanity...what are you going to commune with?

I think you have been strongly influenced by Jesus here.

He claimed an ideal of love...but hated life.

What was the first thing he told his disciples to do?

Drop their nets...drop their profession...drop out of society.
 
Well if you believe in the ideal of communion, but hate humanity...what are you going to commune with?

I think you have been strongly influenced by Jesus here.

He claimed an ideal of love...but hated life.

What was the first thing he told his disciples to do?

Drop their nets...drop their profession...drop out of society.

i don't hate humanity and neither does jesus. we love humanity enough to want something much better, and we're willing to back that desire up, no matter what.

also, i believe you're referring to jesus teaching them to become fishers of men, and you do not do that by dropping out of society and isolating yourself. you do that through communion.
 
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Originally Posted by John99
I think anything you would ask someone else to do you should be willing to do yourself. So if he is willing to give the ok then he should be willing to give it up too.

"damn good point john. damn good. because you know those prostitutes are beneath them (literally and figuratively). that mentality is what makes it so easy to use and abuse someone. bravo and good call.

also in this same vein, i was thinking about masturbation, and i would have to say that if i had a choice to either stay home and objectify myself, or go out and objectify someone else, i would stay home, and be pathetic."


Oh yeah, I like this. Maybe men who want to use prostitutes should be pushed into situations where they feel they have to sell their bodies too? Maybe they could serve the prison community and be paid discounted rates by the government. That could stimulate economic growth (sarcastic).

To me the whole thing is just so primitive, particularly prostitution and basically selling parts of your body but even sex in general and the way, especially men, are literally trained by their peers, who were trained by people before them to be oversexed, as if this is some gauge of success and it really becomes somewhat comical. But to put it in one word i would use "primitive" but really because it is based mostly on folklore and lies. Even medical science puts out so much non sense that you NEED sex and its just not based in biological fact. Companionship is a different matter.

I beleive in the Kardashev scale (not necessarily word for for but as a general concept..but maybe it is very accurate) and to repeat the same lies...well i just dont see prostitution as advancing us and too many of these distortions of truth just hold society back. Outside of the West is no better and often times worse.

Another thing i just cannot understand is, going somewhat off topic here some would say but i think its all somewhat relative, is language. All these different languages and i really think if you dont take these things seriously then theyre just downright comical. You have a world where 100's of languages are spoken all different types of monetary systems and you honestly wonder why there are problems?
 
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i don't hate humanity and neither does jesus. we love humanity enough to want something much better, and we're willing to back that desire up, no matter what.

also, i believe you're referring to jesus teaching them to become fishers of men, and you do not do that by dropping out of society and isolating yourself. you do that through communion.
Ok, but the 'something better' only comes after youre dead, in the Christian worldview.

Remember how Satan takes Jesus up to a mountaintop and shows him all the nations of the earth...."all this I will give you" he cries!


Scheffer+-+Temptation+of+Christ.jpg


But notice, Jesus is pointing UP...he does not want what Satan has to give.

Thats why, as you say..."everythings fucked up".

Of course it is...thats the way its supposed to be when the Devil rules the world. And why Jesus commands you to drop your nets, sell everything you have, stop playing with yourself....and give unto Caesar what is Caesar's.
 
Ok, but the 'something better' only comes after youre dead, in the Christian worldview.

no it doesn't. haven't you read revelations? have you not heard of the kingdom?

i'm the queen.

Remember how Satan takes Jesus up to a mountaintop and shows him all the nations of the earth...."all this I will give you" he cries!


Scheffer+-+Temptation+of+Christ.jpg


But notice, Jesus is pointing UP...he does not want what Satan has to give.

Thats why, as you say..."everythings fucked up".

Of course it is...thats the way its supposed to be when the Devil rules the world. And why Jesus commands you to drop your nets, sell everything you have, stop playing with yourself....and give unto Caesar what is Caesar's.

that was 2000 years ago. now, we're taking it back. :)
 
Did he say he was Jesus?

you mean like interjecting, "hey lori, before you say anything else, this IS jesus." uh, no, but it was who i was addressing, and he's answered me accordingly many times.
 
you mean like interjecting, "hey lori, before you say anything else, this IS jesus." uh, no, but it was who i was addressing, and he's answered me accordingly many times.
But how do you know you were addressng him...and not somebody else?
 
The Church used to frown on gay relationships but now such a union receives the blessings of the high priests. On the issue of prostitution they will warm up in time. They will not disappoint. They're always a step behind on all matters, including abolition of slavery. . . . .O.k, replace 'they' with 'we'. This is to avoid they vs us arguments.
 
Then how did you know it was him?

we're way off topic.

because i'm very particular about what i invite spiritually for starters. but as confirmation, it's been what he's said, and how's he's said it, and what it's done for, and meant to, me.

it's kind of like...you don't need to have a maternity test done to identify your mother. you don't ask to see her driver's license and whatnot. it's just who she is, and it's just what she's done. and i apologize if that's a bad analogy for you personally, but generally, i think you can understand what i mean.

what i mean is...if it's not jesus, it may as well have been.
 
Just an informational note:

Prostitution is legal in Brazil (and at well known locations you can see several ladies waiting for "Johns" in clothes that advertise / show their body's best assets) But making money from these "working girls" (pimping) is illegal, except for services provided to them, such renting a hotel room for an hour. (Some of the "waiting locations" are just in front of hotels that do rent rooms by the hour. Other more foolish working ladies of the night, just stand on the curb and then, after some brief negotiations, get into a stranger's car.)

IMHO, this is a good legal position. Why do I or you have the right to deny a woman (or man, they have their waiting locations also) to use their bodies to earn money, if they willing accept the risks. We don't deny a miner the right to use his body deep in the earth with possible immediate death by roof collapse. Why deny the ladies of the night their right to use their bodies as they see fit? It is often very profitable - more earned in a week than half a year at the best menial job they might be qualified for, typically as a maid, where they might be sexually abused without pay.

They just should not be exploited by pimps and all financial rewards pimps get in the US etc. for inducing young girls into prostitution need to be removed as is done in Brazil. International trafficking of good looking women, especially from Eastern Europe or third world countries is a very big business. Usually naive girls are offered jobs in some foreign land and a one-way airplane ticket but when they arrive they are forced into prostitution. Quite often they will raped by 10 to 20 men* the first night they arrive as this completely breaks any spirit of resistance they might have had.

* Friends / acquaintances of the pimp do this service for him for free in an all-night orgy that only ends when none can get a new erection.
 
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