Is Mohammad in Heaven or hell?

[WildBlueYonder]

Is Mohammad in Heaven or hell?
And how can you tell?

Those questions are based on these questions:

1) is there forgiveness in islam?
2) is there truth in islam?
3) is allah knowable?
4) is allah a deceiver?
5) can muslims make mistakes in their understanding about allah?
6) can allah make mistakes in his understanding of the world?
7) can allah make mistakes in his understanding of the Bible?
8) is the quran infallable?
9) is the quran perfect?
10) is allah a pagan god?
11) was Mohammad assured of Heaven?
12) is there any assurance of going to heaven?

 

[surenderer]

Is Mohammad in Heaven or hell?
And how can you tell?

Those questions are based on these questions:

1) is there forgiveness in islam?
2) is there truth in islam?
3) is allah knowable?
4) is allah a deceiver?
5) can muslims make mistakes in their understanding about allah?
6) can allah make mistakes in his understanding of the world?
7) can allah make mistakes in his understanding of the Bible?
8) is the quran infallable?
9) is the quran perfect?
10) is allah a pagan god?
11) was Mohammad assured of Heaven?
12) is there any assurance of going to heaven?

1)2.199] Then hasten on from the Place from which the people hasten on and ask the forgiveness of Allah; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful

2)[2.147] The truth is from your Lord, therefore you should not be of the doubters

3)9.115] It is not (attributable to) Allah that He should lead a people astray after He has guided them; He even makes clear to them what they should guard against; surely Allah knows all things

4)[2.147] The truth is from your Lord, therefore you should not be of the doubters

5) [112.3] He begets not, nor is He begotten.(a muslim has to know this)

6) [7.54] Surely your Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six periods of time, and He is firm in power; He throws the veil of night over the day, which it pursues incessantly; and (He created) the sun and the moon and the stars, made subservient by His command; surely His is the creation and the command; blessed is Allah, the Lord of the worlds

7)Allah makes no errors

8)[4.82] Do they not then meditate on the Quran? And if it were from any other than Allah, they would have found in it many a discrepancy.(in other words its all good )

9) see 8

10). "If there were therein Gods besides Allah, then verily both (the heavens and the earth) would have collapsed into disorder and chaos. Glorified be Allah, the Lord of the Throne, transcendent beyond all they ascribe unto Him." (21:22)

11) [18.107] Surely (as for) those who believe and do good deeds, their place of entertainment shall be the gardens of paradise,


12) see 11




peace to you

 

[James R]

Even as a non-Muslim, I think I can answer most of those.

1) is there forgiveness in islam?

Yes.

2) is there truth in islam?

Yes, but like every religion, including Christianity, not all of it is truth.

3) is allah knowable?

That would seem to be one of the main points of the Qu'ran.

4) is allah a deceiver?

I doubt that is how he is portrayed.

5) can muslims make mistakes in their understanding about allah?

Yes, of course.

6) can allah make mistakes in his understanding of the world?

No. He's a god. They are usually considered infallible.

7) can allah make mistakes in his understanding of the Bible?

See (6).

8) is the quran infallable?

Depends who you ask. If you're a Muslim, you probably say "No". Ask a Christian about the bible and you'll likely get the same reply. Ask somebody who is not of either religion about either book, and they'll probably tell you that both books have failings.

9) is the quran perfect?

See (8)

10) is allah a pagan god?

What do you mean by "pagan"? If you mean only "non-Christian", then of course. Otherwise, you'll need to define "pagan" more clearly.

11) was Mohammad assured of Heaven?

According to the Qu'ran, I'm sure he was. He was Allah's messenger, after all.

12) is there any assurance of going to heaven?

No. In all religions, going to heaven is contingent on behaving in the "right" way, as dictated by the particular religion.

 

[WildBlueYonder]

2)[2.147] The truth is from your Lord, therefore you should not be of the doubters

3)9.115] It is not (attributable to) Allah that He should lead a people astray after He has guided them; He even makes clear to them what they should guard against; surely Allah knows all things

4)[2.147] The truth is from your Lord, therefore you should not be of the doubters

7)Allah makes no errors

8)[4.82] Do they not then meditate on the Quran? And if it were from any other than Allah, they would have found in it many a discrepancy.

peace to you

Ok, lets check some facts, & see if allah is not of the multi-errors

From:
http://www.submission.org/suras/sura20.htm

1611 93295
[20:77] We inspired Moses: "Lead My servants out, and strike for them a dry road across the sea. You shall not fear that you may get caught, nor shall you worry."
[20:78] Pharaoh pursued them with his troops, but the sea overwhelmed them, as it was destined to overwhelm them.
[20:79] Thus, Pharaoh misled his people; he did not guide them.
[20:80] O Children of Israel, we delivered you from your enemy, summoned you to the right side of Mount Sinai, and we sent down to you manna and quails.
[20:81] Eat from the good things we provided for you, and do not transgress, lest you incur My wrath. Whoever incurs My wrath has fallen.
[20:82] I am surely Forgiving for those who repent, believe, lead a righteous life, and steadfastly remain guided.

The Children of Israel Rebel

[20:83] "Why did you rush away from your people, O Moses?"
[20:84] He said, "They are close behind me. I have rushed to You my Lord, that You may be pleased."
[20:85] He said, "We have put your people to the test after you left, but the Samarian misled them."
[20:86] Moses returned to his people, angry and disappointed, saying, "O my people, did your Lord not promise you a good promise? Could you not wait? Did you want to incur wrath from your Lord? Is this why you broke your agreement with me?"
[20:87] They said, "We did not break our agreement with you on purpose. But we were loaded down with jewelry, and decided to throw our loads in. This is what the Samarian suggested."
_____________________________________________________________________
1611 93295
[20:88] He produced for them a sculpted calf, complete with a calf's sound*. They said, "This is your god, and the god of Moses." Thus, he forgot.
[20:89] Could they not see that it neither responded to them, nor possessed any power to harm them, or benefit them?
[20:90] And Aaron had told them, "O my people, this is a test for you. Your only Lord is the Most Gracious, so follow me, and obey my commands."
[20:91] They said, "We will continue to worship it, until Moses comes back."
[20:92] (Moses) said, "O Aaron, what is it that prevented you, when you saw them go astray,
[20:93] "from following my orders? Have you rebelled against me?"
[20:94] He said, "O son of my mother; do not pull me by my beard and my head. I was afraid that you might say, `You have divided the Children of Israel, and disobeyed my orders.' "
[20:95] He said, "What is the matter with you, O Samarian?"

From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaria

Ethnically, the Samarians are the inhabitants who came to Samaria after the beginning of the Jewish Babylonian Exile. 2 Kings 17 and Josephus (Ant 9.277–91) claim that the Samarians are descendants of deportees brought into the region of Samaria by the Assyrians from other lands they had conquered, including Cuthah. Samarianism is a religion related to Judaism in that it accepts the Torah as its holy book, though little of latter Jewish theology, leading to a deep antagonism between Samarians and Jews. Their temple was at Mount Gerizim, not Jerusalem.

From:
http://www.ancientties.com/Antika details/Antika Samaria.htm

Samaria is an ancient town located on a hill northwest of Nabulus (Shechem) in the West Bank territory under Israeli administration since 1967. Excavations in the 1930's revealed that the site had been occupied occasionally during the late 4th millennium BCE. The city was not founded until about 880 BCE, when Omri made it the new capital of the northern Hebrew kingdom of Israel and named it Samaria.

From:
http://www.campusprogram.com/reference/en/wikipedia/h/hi/history_of_ancient_israel_and_judah.html

1300 BC If Moses was an actual historical figure, the Bible indicates that this may be the time that he was born.

[1] [1]

According to the Bible, Moses leads the Israelites out of Egypt. According to the Biblical narrative, the Israelites wandered in the desert for 40 years and eventually came to "the promised land" in Canaan (Palestine). Moses died before entering Canaan, and Joshua became the next leader.

 

[surenderer]

Randolpho,
Ok im confused....are you asking me to believe an encyclopedia (which has "facts" that are rediscovered and is constantly being updated) over the Koran or are you saying that before Samaria(also known as Shomron which has a earlier history) was"discovered" there wasnt anyone living there or from there? You see if given the choice I would choose to believe to believe the Koran because it has remained the same for 1400 years can you say the same about your encyclopedia sources?.......peace to you

 

[Lemming3k]

You see if given the choice I would choose to believe to believe the Koran because it has remained the same for 1400 years can you say the same about your encyclopedia sources?.......

Thing is if other things had remained the same they'd be even more out of date now, such as an encyclopedia would say the world is flat and earth is the centre of the solar system, im inclined to believe a book that corrects its mistakes than one which would ignore them.

 

[surenderer]

Thing is if other things had remained the same they'd be even more out of date now, such as an encyclopedia would say the world is flat and earth is the centre of the solar system, im inclined to believe a book that corrects its mistakes than one which would ignore them.

Lemming3k,
Sup man........thats my point the Koran doesnt make such claims as the Earth being flat(which everyone believed in those days) but as far as when civilizations were discovered and such their are CONSTANT updates in encylopedias and such because new evidence is being found out. That is why i wouldnt say the Koran makes a mistake. would you think that was impossible that archeologists(sp?) discover that those civilzations were actually older than they originally thought?(they are after all hypothesis)it happens all the time dude ....peace to you

 

[Bruce Wayne]

btw, bro:

The site that Randolfo is referring to as Samaria was populated occasionally during the 4000 before Our prophet Jesus -peace be upon him -.

Subhaana LLah.

Wa 3alayks SSalaam

 

[spidergoat]

Is Mohammad in Heaven or hell?

Not yet. Heaven or Hell happen in the future.

And how can you tell?

Just guessing, that's the best anyone can do.

Those questions are based on these questions:

1) is there forgiveness in islam?

Not much, but some.

2) is there truth in islam?

None

3) is allah knowable?

No.

4) is allah a deceiver?

No, decieving is a human trait.

5) can muslims make mistakes in their understanding about allah?

Do they? maybe. Are they allowed? Somewhat.

6) can allah make mistakes in his understanding of the world?

No.

7) can allah make mistakes in his understanding of the Bible?

What is a mistake?

8) is the quran infallable?

No.

9) is the quran perfect?

Its horribly flawed, in the sense that it goes against the grain of human nature.

10) is allah a pagan god?

Unfortunately not.

11) was Mohammad assured of Heaven?

No more than anyone else.

12) is there any assurance of going to heaven?

You personally? No. The human race? I think there is reason to hope so.

 

[Lemming3k]

That is why i wouldnt say the Koran makes a mistake.

I havnt read it so i cant comment, does the book actually say the world is round though? Even though it doesnt say its flat does it make a statement on the subject at all? I would never say something doesnt make a mistake, though encyclopedias are factual and are considered updated in light of new facts, im not aware of anything in them thats been changed, changed back, changed again etc, perhaps im mistaken. If these changes are made i would imagine they dont happen frequently on the same subject, whereas books such as the koran may be considered out of date in places(depending of course on its content).

 

[surenderer]

I havnt read it so i cant comment, does the book actually say the world is round though? Even though it doesnt say its flat does it make a statement on the subject at all? I would never say something doesnt make a mistake, though encyclopedias are factual and are considered updated in light of new facts, im not aware of anything in them thats been changed, changed back, changed again etc, perhaps im mistaken. If these changes are made i would imagine they dont happen frequently on the same subject, whereas books such as the koran may be considered out of date in places(depending of course on its content).

I only used the "flat world theory as an example but yes there are other miracles in the Koran which took centuries for people to realize such as an explanation of the big bang theory(islam doesnt discount it)....



Then he turned to the sky, and it had been (as) smoke (dukhaan): He said to it and to the earth: come you together, willingly or unwillingly. They said: we do come (together) in willing obedience. (Qur'aan 41:11).

Do not the Unbelievers see That the heavens and the earth Were joined together (as one Unit of Creation), before We clove them asunder? [Al-Quraan 21:30]






and also space travel...........

O assembly of Men and Jinns! If you have opower to pass through the zones of the Heavens and Earth - then pass! But you will never be able to pass them except with authority (from Allah) (55:33)


or how about the earth and planets revolving around the sun..........


It is He Who created The Night and the Day, And the sun and the moon: All (the celestial bodies) Swim along, each in its Rounded course. [Al-Quraan 21:33]



there are many many others also....peace to you

 

[WildBlueYonder]

Randolpho,
Ok im confused....

I'll say, my screen name is "Randolfo", it keeps me 'Mexican' enough, as opposed to the pseudo-greek english version with the "ph", but just for you, you can call me, "Ay auygi;shfow443", I'm sure that's more easy to spell

are you asking me to believe an encyclopedia (which has "facts" that are rediscovered and is constantly being pdated)

ah, yeah! better than a book that has unproven so-called 'facts', ah, how many joints in a human body again?

over the Koran or are you saying that before Samaria(also known as Shomron which has a earlier history) was"discovered" there wasnt anyone living there or from there?

That could be, but I just spent time looking for an earlier reference to "Shomron" than the first hebrew state, couldn't find, could you find one & be so kind as to post the URL? thanks

You see if given the choice I would choose to believe to believe the Koran because it has remained the same for 1400 years can you say the same about your encyclopedia sources?.......peace to you

sorry, it had at least 3 versions up until calif Uthman's 4th

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Surrender. The link Randolfo gave before stated that the city Samaria was built at 880 B.C. But the link also says that the site was inhabited in the 4000 B.C. That means that if that is the Samaria that is Meant by the Creator than there is no contradiction.

On another note. You are right the Qur'an above anything else!

May Peace be onto you Brother.

 

[WildBlueYonder]

Surrender. The link Randolfo gave before stated that the city Samaria was built at 880 B.C. But the link also says that the site was inhabited in the 4000 B.C. That means that if that is the Samaria that is Meant by the Creator than there is no contradiction.

On another note. You are right the Qur'an above anything else!

May Peace be onto you Brother.

surrender, don't listen to your brain-washed brother, I don't know what book he was reading, but check this out:
from:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaria

Shomron (Samaria) is literally a watch-mountain or a watch-tower. In the heart of the mountains of Israel, a few miles north-west of Shechem, stands the "hill of Shomeron," a solitary mountain, a great "mamelon". It is an oblong hill, with steep but not inaccessible sides, and a long flat top. Omri, the king of Israel, purchased this hill from Shemer its owner for two talents of silver, and built on its broad summit the city to which he gave the name of "Shomeron", i.e., Samaria, as the new capital of his kingdom instead of Tirzah (1 Kings 16:24). As such it possessed many advantages. Here Omri resided during the last six years of his reign. As the result of an unsuccessful war with Syria, he appears to have been obliged to grant to the Syrians the right to "make streets in Samaria", i.e., probably permission to the Syrian merchants to carry on their trade in the Israelite capital. This would imply the existence of a considerable Syrian population. "It was the only great city of Palestine created by the sovereign. All the others had been already consecrated by patriarchal tradition or previous possession.
But Samaria was the choice of Omri alone. He, indeed, gave to the city which he had built the name of its former owner, but its especial connection with himself as its founder is proved by the designation which it seems Samaria bears in Assyrian inscriptions, Beth-khumri ("the house or palace of Omri")", Stanley.

here's a logic question:
if a hilltop is bought for 2 talents of silver, then a new city is built for a new capitol for Omri, King of Israel, then named after its previous owner, whom Omri just paid, how old would the city be at the time Omri named it "Shomrom"?
would it be:

zero, just built, brand-spanking new?
4 years old?
1,000 years old?
2,000 years old?
how old?

also, if the city was named "Shomron" after the previous owner named Shemer, how long could that hilltop have had his name?
zero, it was just a hilltop?
20 years, Shemer named everything after himself, so when he bought the land, well everthing got his name
1,000 years, Shermer inherited the land from his father Shermer, who got it from his father Shermer, etc...

any answers?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Surrender,

the link:

http://www.ancientties.com/Antika%20details/Antika%20Samaria.htm

There it says.

Samaria is an ancient town located on a hill northwest of Nabulus (Shechem) in the West Bank territory under Israeli administration since 1967. Excavations in the 1930's revealed that the site had been occupied occasionally during the late 4th millennium BCE. The city was not founded until about 880 BCE, when Omri made it the new capital of the northern Hebrew kingdom of Israel and named it Samaria. Although the northern kingdom was often stronger than Judah to the south and enjoyed greater economic development, it was crushed by Assyria in 722, and much of its population was carried into captivity. It remained the capital until its destruction by the Assyrians in 722.

If I say, as some do, that humanity originated from africa, even though africa at the time wasn't called africa my statement would still be correct.

Peace be unto you, Brother.

 

[WildBlueYonder]

Surrender,

the link:



There it says.

Samaria is an ancient town located on a hill .

If I say, as some do, that humanity originated from africa, even though africa at the time wasn't called africa my statement would still be correct.

Peace be unto you, Brother.

now who's weak?
now tell us again what you are trying to prove? oh, yes, that Samarians existed in Moses' time as the quran says. hmm, I'm still waiting

 

[Bruce Wayne]

That since the Qur'an discribes it for us, those that came later. It suffices to tell us where the Samarian came from. So even though Samaria was not called that by his time. The name is enough to know where the man came from.

Think the example of Africa over you will eventually understand.

:m:

 

[Leo Volont]

Is Mohammad in Heaven or hell?
And how can you tell?

Those questions are based on these questions:

1) is there forgiveness in islam?
2) is there truth in islam?
3) is allah knowable?
4) is allah a deceiver?
5) can muslims make mistakes in their understanding about allah?
6) can allah make mistakes in his understanding of the world?
7) can allah make mistakes in his understanding of the Bible?
8) is the quran infallable?
9) is the quran perfect?
10) is allah a pagan god?
11) was Mohammad assured of Heaven?
12) is there any assurance of going to heaven?

You seem to supposing that Mohammad will be answering to Paul as to whether or not he goes to Heaven. All your tacit assumptions are based on the Doctrines of Paul.

Now you should wonder who is likely to be more correct about Theology... Paul or Mohommet? Paul started out as a murderer setting out to destroy the Jewish Christian Church. He ended by destroying the Jewish Christian Church with the Gentile Faction that he set against it. There really seems to have been too much malice in that man to believe that his Religious vision could be in anyway real. So let us look at Mohomad. He started out by teaching the Arabs not to be idol worshippers, to be Brothers, and to submit totally to God. Yes, he authorized military resistance to his enemies, but we should not blame him more for eventually surrendering to them... afterall, Mohommad made peace on the condition that Muslims for ever after would idolize Mecca and pray to a rock -- the very things he fought against. Rather than being a martyr and allowing his followers to be martyrs, he surrendered not to God but to the demands of idolators. But we would blame him is he had continued to fight. It would be damned if if he did, and damned if he didn't. Christians might aver that Mohommet should have let himself be crucified like Christ... but we saw how that worked out. An enemy of his Church, Paul, was able to hijack the whole business. Mohommet was able, by surrendering to the idolators, to stay on the scene long enough to emphasize other worthwhile doctrines. Christ's quick defeat in death only assured that his enemies would destroy all His writings. At least Mohommet is represented by his own writings. Christ comes to us by the writings of his persecutor and enemies.

 

[surenderer]

You seem to supposing that Mohammad will be answering to Paul as to whether or not he goes to Heaven. All your tacit assumptions are based on the Doctrines of Paul.

Now you should wonder who is likely to be more correct about Theology... Paul or Mohommet? Paul started out as a murderer setting out to destroy the Jewish Christian Church. He ended by destroying the Jewish Christian Church with the Gentile Faction that he set against it. There really seems to have been too much malice in that man to believe that his Religious vision could be in anyway real. So let us look at Mohomad. He started out by teaching the Arabs not to be idol worshippers, to be Brothers, and to submit totally to God. Yes, he authorized military resistance to his enemies, but we should not blame him more for eventually surrendering to them... afterall, Mohommad made peace on the condition that Muslims for ever after would idolize Mecca and pray to a rock -- the very things he fought against. Rather than being a martyr and allowing his followers to be martyrs, he surrendered not to God but to the demands of idolators. But we would blame him is he had continued to fight. It would be damned if if he did, and damned if he didn't. Christians might aver that Mohommet should have let himself be crucified like Christ... but we saw how that worked out. An enemy of his Church, Paul, was able to hijack the whole business. Mohommet was able, by surrendering to the idolators, to stay on the scene long enough to emphasize other worthwhile doctrines. Christ's quick defeat in death only assured that his enemies would destroy all His writings. At least Mohommet is represented by his own writings. Christ comes to us by the writings of his persecutor and enemies.

Dang Leo you had me in your corner untill the end ... I do agree that muslims pray towards Mecca but the Kabla(or rock as you say) is more of a beacon that all muslims face as a sign of unity....no one prays TO the "rock" No muslim prayers say worship the rock and Islam is all about unity and assosciating nothing to God unlike the trinity dogma of christanity I find it hard for anyone to believe that the Prophet(pbuh) surrendered to the idlators when he defeated them and the Koran that was reveled to him was very specific about what would happen to "pagans" and polytheists.....peace to you

 

[WildBlueYonder]

That since the Qur'an discribes it for us, those that came later. It suffices to tell us where the Samarian came from. So even though Samaria was not called that by his time. The name is enough to know where the man came from.

Think the example of Africa over you will eventually understand.

:

grasping at straws, as your hands slip from sure holdings?