Is jesus the messiah

[mustafhakofi]

You xians, believe your christ to be the messiah.


why has he been proclaimed such,as he clearly does not fit the bill.

firstly his name is not Immanuel.

secondly he is not a direct descendant of David.

thirdly the jewish lands that should of been destroyed were not before he reached maturity.

forthly he could not have fulfilled the prophecy of zechariah, as he was not a military king and had no kingdom.

these are but some in the bible that contradict that jesus is the messiah.

what do you say.

c20h25n3o says,

"Edit: Almost forgot ... Yes it is infallible. It is The Word. And The Word is Good News."

if so the jesus is not the messiah.

 

[c20H25N3o]

You can never hope to interpret the bible without the Holy Spirit. It is just stories and myths to you because you have heard the message of Jesus and have rejected it.
You wish to make Jesus out to be a liar when He is Who Is. Accept Jesus and then your eyes may be opened to the mysteries of the gospels. Without Jesus your spirit cannot hope to fathom the mind of Christ. Without Jesus you are blind to the mysteries that lay within the text. Without understanding the Spirit behind The Word you are like a man reading a "Keep Out! Danger Of Death" sign attached to a power station fence who then says to themselves "I will not die! What liars!" but still you know to keep away from the dangers within. You miss the care and concern for you in the spirit behind the words although consciously you follow the directive without hesitation. The Word of God is good and it is for you! Do not attempt to find issue with something that is for you!!

peace

c20

 

[fahrenheit 451]

so we've got to have a fantasy figure before we can read, or find hidden nonexistent meanings, my elder brother sadly dead now, used to write between the lines of books saying you've got to read between the lines, unfortunately he was in a lunatic asylum.

however I must say that is the biggest cop out from answering a direct question, I've ever seen.
example: I cant answer you damning evidence, as you cant possibly know, what is written in the bible because it does'nt say what it say, you can only read if you have xray specs on, or if gawd is reading it for yah.
what a crock of s@#*

 

[c20H25N3o]

so we've got to have a fantasy figure before we can read, or find hidden nonexistent meanings, my elder brother sadly dead now, used to write between the lines of books saying you've got to read between the lines, unfortunately he was in a lunatic asylum.

however I must say that is the biggest cop out from answering a direct question, I've ever seen.
example: I cant answer you damning evidence, as you cant possibly know, what is written in the bible because it does'nt say what it say, you can only read if you have xray specs on, or if gawd is reading it for yah.
what a crock of s@#*

Try and see through the eyes of a child rather than an adult and then you may see Jesus clearly enough to trust in Him. Jesus stands there at the door knocking. The child turns to his father and says "Someone is knocking at the door. Shall I answer it?" The father says "Let me see who it is? I want to be sure they are for you and not against you before you let them into the house"
When the child opens the door, the father sees that it is only Jesus and says "Welcome friend". The child now knows Jesus is 'safe'. Their father said so. Jesus says "Hello Friend" and "Peace To You". Jesus has confirmed to the child that his father was correct to let Him in by his actions. What shall Jesus do when He enters the house? Is he likely to run amock and cause havoc as the honored guest of the child's father or is He likely to bring peace and friendship? I think His words state His intentions more than clearly enough. Who kows what gifts this friend brings for the child of the father whom he loves? Jesus gives the child a gift. The child opens the gift and is amazed to find it is what the child had always wanted! The child looks to his father and says "I like Jesus. He brought me a gift", the father says "I like Jesus too son, Jesus is so generous is He not?". The child says "Yes father He is generous.". Jesus smiles and says "Come on let's go and sit in your garden where we can tell stories of monsters and dragons". The child is all agog and sits on Jesus' right hand side as He begins His tale. The father smiles and makes coffee for his friend. His child receives apple juice and stories. All are at peace. Jesus is good to His word. God is Love. Peace flow out from Him to you.

peace

c20

 

[fahrenheit 451]

c20 :if I do that, then I will allow myself to be indoctrinated, and brainwashed, I've already been down that road.

many people have allowed there so called friends, near there kids, sadly.
their words, were taken as friend also.
also these so called friends told there children stories of dragons and monsters.
have you read or seen the news or seen something like jerry springer these are friends.

what word is jesus good to, where is god love, as only you can read between the lines of the bible, I am but a mere mortal.

but admitedly it better to have a fantasy friend they only harm your mind.

you truly are blinded by faith, wake up and come into the real world.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

c20H25N3o: You can never hope to interpret the bible without the Holy Spirit. It is just stories and myths to you because you have heard the message of Jesus and have rejected it.
*************
M*W: You still don't seem to understand that Paul wrote and influenced the writings of the NT. These writings may have been about Jesus, but they don't contain the TRUTH about Jesus.
*************
c20H25N3o: You wish to make Jesus out to be a liar when He is Who Is.
*************
M*W: No one wants to make Jesus out to be a liar. That is not our intent. In fact, there are more atheists out there who know Jesus better than you! The Jesus you believe in remains a myth, it's just that you don't see it. You've been blinded by the lies of Paul, and that is what you believe.
*************
c20H25N3o: Accept Jesus and then your eyes may be opened to the mysteries of the gospels. Without Jesus your spirit cannot hope to fathom the mind of Christ. Without Jesus you are blind to the mysteries that lay within the text.
*************
M*W: Several of us have given you quotes and links to read, but I suspect you haven't read any of them. In other words, you don't want to learn anything about your belief system. You choose to remain blinded by the lies.
*************
c20H25N3o: Without understanding the Spirit behind The Word you are like a man reading a "Keep Out! Danger Of Death" sign attached to a power station fence who then says to themselves "I will not die! What liars!" but still you know to keep away from the dangers within. You miss the care and concern for you in the spirit behind the words although consciously you follow the directive without hesitation. The Word of God is good and it is for you! Do not attempt to find issue with something that is for you!!
*************
M*W: The NT is not for anyone, it is about Paul and not Jesus. One doesn't need a mythical spirit to understand its words. One only needs to learn about Paul and his evil motivation to self-aggrandize himself to his peers and make a fast buck while he CONTINUED TO PERSECUTE the followers of Jesus.

You claim you love Jesus, but you worship Paul, so your words contradict your understanding of your religion. You follow the Anti-Christ and don't even know it!

 

[c20H25N3o]

c20H25N3o: You can never hope to interpret the bible without the Holy Spirit. It is just stories and myths to you because you have heard the message of Jesus and have rejected it.
*************
M*W: You still don't seem to understand that Paul wrote and influenced the writings of the NT. These writings may have been about Jesus, but they don't contain the TRUTH about Jesus.
*************
c20H25N3o: You wish to make Jesus out to be a liar when He is Who Is.
*************
M*W: No one wants to make Jesus out to be a liar. That is not our intent. In fact, there are more atheists out there who know Jesus better than you! The Jesus you believe in remains a myth, it's just that you don't see it. You've been blinded by the lies of Paul, and that is what you believe.
*************
c20H25N3o: Accept Jesus and then your eyes may be opened to the mysteries of the gospels. Without Jesus your spirit cannot hope to fathom the mind of Christ. Without Jesus you are blind to the mysteries that lay within the text.
*************
M*W: Several of us have given you quotes and links to read, but I suspect you haven't read any of them. In other words, you don't want to learn anything about your belief system. You choose to remain blinded by the lies.
*************
c20H25N3o: Without understanding the Spirit behind The Word you are like a man reading a "Keep Out! Danger Of Death" sign attached to a power station fence who then says to themselves "I will not die! What liars!" but still you know to keep away from the dangers within. You miss the care and concern for you in the spirit behind the words although consciously you follow the directive without hesitation. The Word of God is good and it is for you! Do not attempt to find issue with something that is for you!!
*************
M*W: The NT is not for anyone, it is about Paul and not Jesus. One doesn't need a mythical spirit to understand its words. One only needs to learn about Paul and his evil motivation to self-aggrandize himself to his peers and make a fast buck while he CONTINUED TO PERSECUTE the followers of Jesus.

You claim you love Jesus, but you worship Paul, so your words contradict your understanding of your religion. You follow the Anti-Christ and don't even know it!

Medicine Woman - do you claim Jesus Christ came as a human being? Just yes or no please.

Thanks

c20

 

[Avatar]

Why do people always need a saviour? I think that the world is a fantastic place as is and needs no such person.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

c20H25N3o: Medicine Woman - do you claim Jesus Christ came as a human being? Just yes or no please.
*************
M*W: I have given you my answer in a previous post. Why do you keep asking me the same question? I've explained my position in depth.

 

[c20H25N3o]

c20H25N3o: Medicine Woman - do you claim Jesus Christ came as a human being? Just yes or no please.
*************
M*W: I have given you my answer in a previous post. Why do you keep asking me the same question? I've explained my position in depth.

Then humour me with just a yes or no answer here. Thanks

c20

 

[SnakeLord]

If MW humours you with an answer, do you think you could show the same attitude and humour Musthafakofi with an answer to the questions he asked about 10 posts ago?

There's no point taking if you're also not willing to give.

 

[Preacher_X]

Why do people always need a saviour? I think that the world is a fantastic place as is and needs no such person.

yes perfect for some but terrible for most, the overwhelming majority of people. anyway sorry to go off topic. im trying to find ome sources and ill try and post a reply about this Messiah thing soon, mustafhakofi

 

[c20H25N3o]

Sorry Snakelord, you are right I should respond to mustafhakofi's questions

mustafhakofi: You xians, believe your christ to be the messiah.


why has he been proclaimed such,as he clearly does not fit the bill.

firstly his name is not Immanuel.

Ok what is his name then and who is he?

secondly he is not a direct descendant of David.

Ok who is he a direct descendant of then and who is he specifically?

thirdly the jewish lands that should of been destroyed were not before he reached maturity.

Sorry??? Who is he again?

forthly he could not have fulfilled the prophecy of zechariah, as he was not a military king and had no kingdom.

You think of military in terms of earthly kingdoms. Jesus is the ultimate military king in the Kingdom of Heaven. Think in terms of spiritual kingdoms with spirits in and you suddenly see that physical machinery is a great way to actually lose the battle. Not a good idea to live by the physical sword therefore

these are but some in the bible that contradict that jesus is the messiah.

lol...

You: Your Honor, that pesky bible is full of lies it dared to contradict that Jesus was the Messiah. I demand that the book be burnt at once for it's heresy! May the Messiah Jesus be honored and that book be burnt!

The Judge: May your honoring of Jesus' name be remembered but please take time to read the message of Jesus. Start with the New Testament if you prefer. The Old Testament was prophecy of what was to come but now that what has come is here what of it? Let the scholars study the prophecies that they may fully marvel at the works of God. Now as for the makers of that book. Well they have received their rewards already as have you. Begone and let us hear no more of the matter!



what do you say.

I have already said it.

thanks

c20

 

[mustafhakofi]

firstly I would like to ask have you ever read your bible.

Sorry Snakelord, you are right I should respond to mustafhakofi's questions

mustafhakofi: You xians, believe your christ to be the messiah.


why has he been proclaimed such,as he clearly does not fit the bill.

firstly his name is not Immanuel.

Ok what is his name then and who is he?

read the gospel according to matthew 1:23 "Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and his name shall be called Immanuel" (which means, God with us).

secondly he is not a direct descendant of David.

Ok who is he a direct descendant of then and who is he specifically?

The Messiah must be a physical descendant of David, romans 1:3 the gospel concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh. acts 2:29-30 Brethren, I may say to you confidently of the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.
: Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants upon his throne.
Yet, how could Jesus meet this requirement since his genealogies Matthew 1 The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. show he descended from David through Joseph, who was not his natural father because of the Virgin Birth. Hence, this prophecy could not have been fulfilled.

thirdly the jewish lands that should of been destroyed were not before he reached maturity.

Sorry??? Who is he again?

isaiah 7:13-16 And he said, "Hear then, O house of David! Is it too little for you to weary men, that you weary my God also?
:Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, a young woman shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Imman'u-el.
: He shall eat curds and honey when he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good.
: For before the child knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land before whose two kings you are in dread will be deserted. there is no mention of this prophecy being fulfilled in the NT.

forthly he could not have fulfilled the prophecy of zechariah, as he was not a military king and had no kingdom.

You think of military in terms of earthly kingdoms. Jesus is the ultimate military king in the Kingdom of Heaven. Think in terms of spiritual kingdoms with spirits in and you suddenly see that physical machinery is a great way to actually lose the battle. Not a good idea to live by the physical sword therefore

but how can your jesus be the messiah.
so I say beware false prophets

these are but some in the bible that contradict that jesus is the messiah.

lol...

why do you laugh and mock your own infallible bible.

You: Your Honor, that pesky bible is full of lies it dared to contradict that Jesus was the Messiah. I demand that the book be burnt at once for it's heresy! May the Messiah Jesus be honored and that book be burnt!

The Judge: May your honoring of Jesus' name be remembered but please take time to read the message of Jesus. Start with the New Testament

these are all from matthew NT if this is what jesus preaches forget it. Those who bear bad fruit will be cut down and burned "with unquenchable fire." 3:10, 12

Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. 5:17

Jesus recommends that to avoid sin we cut off our hands and pluck out our eyes. This advice is given immediately after he says that anyone who looks with lust at any women commits adultery. 5:29-30

Jesus says that most people will go to hell. 7:13-14

"the children of the kingdom [the Jews] shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 8:12

Jesus shows no compassion for the bereaved, saying to a man who had just lost his father: "Let the dead bury the dead." 8:21

Jesus sends some devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the waters below. 8:32

Cities that neither "receive" the disciples nor "hear" their words will be destroyed by God. It will be worse for them than for Sodom and Gomorrah. And you know what God supposedly did to those poor folks (see Gen.19:24). 10:14-15

Families will be torn apart because of Jesus (this is one of the few "prophecies" in the Bible that has actually come true). "Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. 10:21

Jesus says that we should fear God who is willing and "able to destroy both soul and body in hell." 10:28

Jesus condemns entire cities to dreadful deaths and to the eternal torment of hell because they didn't care for his preaching. 11:20-24

Jesus will send his angels to gather up "all that offend" and they "shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." 13:41-42, 50

Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: "He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) So, does Jesus think that children who curse their parents should be killed? It sure sounds like it. 15:4-7

Jesus advises his followers to mutilate themselves by cutting off their hands and plucking out their eyes. He says it's better to be "maimed" than to suffer "everlasting fire." 18:8-9

Jesus had no problem with the idea of drowning everyone on earth in the flood. It'll be just like that when he returns. 24:37

God will come when people least expect him and then he'll "cut them asunder." And "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 24:50-51

The servant who kept and returned his master's talent was cast into the "outer darkness" where there will be "weeping and gnashing of teeth." 25:30

Jesus tells us what he has planned for those that he dislikes. They will be cast into an "everlasting fire." 25:41

Jesus says the damned will be tormented forever. 25:46

if you prefer. The Old Testament was prophecy of what was to come but now that what has come is here what of it? Let the scholars study the prophecies that they may fully marvel at the works of God. Now as for the makers of that book. Well they have received their rewards already as have you. Begone and let us hear no more of the matter!

why to hot for you

what do you say.

I have already said it.

thanks

c20

but not very well.

 

[stretched]

Yo,

"Jesus says the damned will be tormented forever. 25:46"

Now that is not very loving.

Smooth.

 

[Jenyar]

In other words, the damned are the damned - they have no other source of love. And God does not have to love sin. You might say "that is not very loving", but why should it be?

Jesus believed in hell because God believes in hell. The simple fact is that you can't find love that stretches beyond death anywhere but with God.

Love is not something God is obedient to, it is something He presents - whether you accept it or reject it is up to you.

 

[c20H25N3o]

Hell is a state in which there is no love. If there is no love in the soul then it has essentially died because in order to receive love, first you must give it. Without love we may not even receive a glass of water. We will just thirst and thirst. Sometimes evil people can throw you into that pit. They flatter you, take all of your love for themselves and then cast you aside leaving you with no love whilst they get drunk on yours. When the innocent go to hell like this, hell cannot keep them because hell can only keep those who have stolen love that is not theirs. They had none so they stole someone elses. This is why we see evil people succeed in this world incidentally but that is a matter for the philosophy forum.
We still see a little bit of love in the souls of the common people but really it is the dregs at the bottom of pint of beer and who wants that?
When we say things like "But I am a good person, I wont go to hell" you dont know how close to having an empty glass you really are. People who love evil will drink your spittly dregs when you arent looking leaving you with nothing, they may even smash your glass!
The great thing is that no matter how little you have in your glass, God loves you jealously. He wants to be the one to fill up your glass. He stands their with the worlds biggest bar and charges nothing at all. Jesus is the Great Barman and His Blood Is more than enough to fill your glass, which is why he says "This is my blood that I give you, remember me as you drink it". Jesus' suffering was neccesary. His death was necessary. It was imperative that he came as a human being so that His blood could be poured out for you. Without that blood our glasses would always be near enough empty if not completly empty.
Jesus' glass was overflowing but it was smashed and the blood and water poured out to the earth. That act of love, His sacrifice meant that He was thrown into hell as an innocent soul, in fact the only truly innocent soul to have ever been there. He preached to the souls imprisoned there and those that believed were set free.
Your soul is eternal but where you go at the end of the day is like well up to you. The point is that we cannot fill up our own glasses without stealing dregs from other people and this is not 'good'. Jesus is the only place we can have our glasses filled freely.

peace

c20

 

[mis-t-highs]

c20 have you any reference material, so we can collaborate your post.
you seem to know a lot about evil, but we need to establish it as fact.
so source material would come in handy.
I'm sorry I've searched but cant find any, I've even gone back to the old system of looking though books but to no avail.
thank you.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Jenyar: Love is not something God is obedient to, it is something He presents - whether you accept it or reject it is up to you.
*************
M*W: Jenyar, you always describe "God" as having thoughts, emotions, intelligence, feelings of happiness or grief with his 'unworthy' creation, etc.. Only humans have these higher senses. (I don't disclude higher animals like apes or dogs, because I know my dogs have a high degree of feelings and emotions). If there is a god who created us, then as I've stated many times past, god dwells within all creation, with humanity being the greatest creation that we know of in our universe; therefore, humanity IS God; therefore, we need look no further than humanity to see God.

Now that I realize our creation was a simple act of random evolution (we're still Big Banging as we speak). Sure, it may seem evolution occurs at snail-speed, but that depends on whose or whats perspective is experiencing the velocity.

If a god exists, one who created everything, why would this creator need to have any lowly human or higher animal emotions? It is these same emotions, etc., that make us weaker or stronger. If God is omnipotent, omniscient, etc., why would God even need to experience these very human emotions -- unless God is cumulatively all of creation and is most higly reflected in humanity?

 

[c20H25N3o]

Evolution i.e. the universe progresses and wipes out life every 80 years or so is a bit shi* to say the least. What a well crappy idea! Whats the point of it? Why Am I here. Do I just die? Is that it? Hey stop this boat cos I wanna get off! Hey you great big damned big banging thing, I command you to let me off at once! Hey shi* it hasn't stopped spinning to let me off! But I am supposed to be the master of all. Why am I so limited? I am mortal. I have no power. Does not compute. Does not Compute. Overload. Overload. Must get off. Cannot stop. Terminate. Terminate.

Get over it you evolutionists and start to have a little faith huh?

best wishes

c20