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is it possible to find God by reason?
- Thread starter longlostlady
- Start date
so, you charmless git, you cannot see ANY negatives comeing from those who espouse and practice the materialistic philosophy....? is that so?Godless said:Well this "materialistic" science that you call, has provided the means to spout your shit on this type of forum, it took many years of evolution on our part, so that you can redicule latter our achievements, this is called hypocrisy. If Judaic Christianity would still had their way, we still be riding horse buggies!.
Godless
well cle i THINK water was referring to godles's use of 'we'. but see as ya asincole grey said:Actually, I was wondering who THIS "we" is -
I was hoping D wasn't using the royal "we".
when i say 'we' i am not coming on like Queenie, no. i say it to mean that not only me believes what i say
And would this "dear friend" be me?water said:But it is not funny when I a dear friend brutally went against me because of that.
So many assumptions he made about my lack of belief, as if I were some kind of a generic robotic non-believer, and as if he were appointed to fix me.
That hurt.
I would have surprised myself with such one-dimensionality, as cole so succinctly put it.
longlostlady said:um hello, i'm new so sorry if anything like this has been asked recently - have had a look through and can't find anything though so....
i'm currently doing some coursework on Aquinas and his Five Ways and am interested in other people's views on whether it is actually possible to find God by reason. I mean, there have been times in life when i have really wanted to believe in a personal God who was looking out for me, or at least that the struggling was worthwhile, but I can't make myself believe in God. And no matter how much i look at all the logical arguments to say that that God exists, there's still something that won't let me believe, even though I am perfectly willing to accept that there is a strong probability of a God, even if it is beyond our comprehension, whereas friends who have been raised with the belief in God have this belief even while acknowledging that there are many valid arguments against the existence of such a being.
So I guess what I'm really asking is can reasoning provide faith?
And as an aside, I'm also studying Luther, and while I'm aware that in the 16th century belief in God was almost universal (obviously within the geographical area we're talking about), would Lutheran principles of justification by faith mean that I was damned, no matter how i lived my life?
Ask God to reveal Himself to you, and tell Him that you will serve Him, (if you really want to serve Him) if you knew He existed.
Serve God and go to heaven. Don't serve God and go to hell.
Make your choice.
What He wants you to believe and do is in the King James version New Testament.
You can listen to the New Testament being read by someone else, online at this website:
http://www.audio-bible.com/bible/bible.html Start with Matthew and go all the way through to Revelation. You can read along with it.
ghost7584
what has that to do with the posters question.
"is it possible to find God by reason? "
to answer it myself, no, but it is by delusion.
however in your subjective mind you can reason anything you like, even a pink polka dotted sky, and red grassland, whatever you imagination can conjure up.
so in this sense if you wish, you can find a god by reason, but it will only be personal to you, it will only ever be subjective.
what has that to do with the posters question.
"is it possible to find God by reason? "
to answer it myself, no, but it is by delusion.
however in your subjective mind you can reason anything you like, even a pink polka dotted sky, and red grassland, whatever you imagination can conjure up.
so in this sense if you wish, you can find a god by reason, but it will only be personal to you, it will only ever be subjective.
Answer to original question:
No,belief in god is based on faith, as we cannot prove neither disprove.
Myself I believe in 'god' this is my choice, it is without logic or reason, but it is based on my own life experiences, observations, as oppose to anything taught.
I therefore rely on my self as the source of my belief.
Check out the thread 'why are believers anti science' there are some great arguments for and against in that thread
No,belief in god is based on faith, as we cannot prove neither disprove.
Myself I believe in 'god' this is my choice, it is without logic or reason, but it is based on my own life experiences, observations, as oppose to anything taught.
I therefore rely on my self as the source of my belief.
Check out the thread 'why are believers anti science' there are some great arguments for and against in that thread
Theoryofrelativity said:No,belief in god is based on faith, as we cannot prove neither disprove.
Beliefs are all subjective evaluations however, and usually grounded in previous beliefs, and that is the fundamental problem with them- the tendency for an infinite regress, and, Faiths (capital F) are simply [sets of beliefs], and so Faith is nothing special in that regard.
...
As for Gods, they are all imaginary. Definitively. If one wishes to equivocate imagined existence with actual existence, they may do so at their own peril. Interested persons should be able to find an .mp3 or .wmv of Infidel Guy's radio interview with Franc Trembley on the topic of "Strong Atheism." It's an excellent introduction to SA arguments.
Greetings
i can speculate about a creator god
i can also speculate about a time when humans have some or all of the qualities attributed to this god
god can create
so can i
the difference is in scale and complexity
easily overcome in time
therefore, i find this god, a mundane speculation
quite different from conjuring up flying reindeer
?
i can also speculate about a time when humans have some or all of the qualities attributed to this god
god can create
so can i
the difference is in scale and complexity
easily overcome in time
therefore, i find this god, a mundane speculation
quite different from conjuring up flying reindeer
?
firstly,
how on earth does anybody think the notion of god came about?
you have to realise that not everyone had to have been "taught" about god,
what about the very origin of religioun and the very origin of the notion of god existing?
if you track the root to its core then obviously it had to have started by somebody thinking it up,
and to think you have to reason,
peace
how on earth does anybody think the notion of god came about?
you have to realise that not everyone had to have been "taught" about god,
what about the very origin of religioun and the very origin of the notion of god existing?
if you track the root to its core then obviously it had to have started by somebody thinking it up,
and to think you have to reason,
peace
EmptyForceOfChi
how on earth does anybody think the notion of god came about?
extrapolate from the human condition and capabilities
you have to realise that not everyone had to have been "taught" about god,
the speculation does not have to be acquired from without?
what about the very origin of religioun and the very origin of the notion of god existing?
the former is not addressed and to the latter, see above
if you track the root to its core then obviously it had to have started by somebody thinking it up,
exactly. a speculation from a thinking mind
and to think you have to reason,
?
how on earth does anybody think the notion of god came about?
extrapolate from the human condition and capabilities
you have to realise that not everyone had to have been "taught" about god,
the speculation does not have to be acquired from without?
what about the very origin of religioun and the very origin of the notion of god existing?
the former is not addressed and to the latter, see above
if you track the root to its core then obviously it had to have started by somebody thinking it up,
exactly. a speculation from a thinking mind
and to think you have to reason,
?
without reasoning on subtle subconscious levels, how can we discuss anything? or say anything?
dosent everything require some kind of reasoning? apart from breathing etc.
peace.
dosent everything require some kind of reasoning? apart from breathing etc.
peace.
to reply to my post you must use reason, to come to any kind of conclusion you must use reason,
just like the idea of god, "why is the universe here i cannot understand, there must be an infinite energy who controls it all"
there is your reason right there, try to tell me thats not reason? or maybe your all not speaking of the true definition of reason, as stated by websters.
peace.
just like the idea of god, "why is the universe here i cannot understand, there must be an infinite energy who controls it all"
there is your reason right there, try to tell me thats not reason? or maybe your all not speaking of the true definition of reason, as stated by websters.
peace.
EmptyForceOfChi said:without reasoning on subtle subconscious levels, how can we discuss anything? or say anything?
strawman. i fail to see the relevance of something as ambiguous as "subtle subconscious levels." nor is the neccesity of any form of reasoning, to discuss or otherwise, in dispute
EmptyForceOfChi said:dosent everything require some kind of reasoning? apart from breathing etc.
redundant
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how on earth does anybody think the notion of god came about?
I'm glad you asked.
3000+ years ago humans brains were evolving, we were a species with no consciousness as we know of consciousness today, instead there was an automatic sense reaction to stimuli, our limited language echoed in our subconciousness these echos, "voices" herd by one hemisphere of the brain through the other were then conceived to be the voices of "gods"
clickVerbal hallucinations were studied in a variety of groups. In a sample of hospitalized schizophrenics and a sample of homeless people on the streets on New York City, such voices were often multiple, critical in women, but more often commands in men, and commonly religious.
The Voice Of God
Book Review
Julian Jaynes "Origin of Consciousness in the Break Down of the Bicameral Mind"
Godless