is christianity perverse?
- Thread starter ellion
- Start date
ellion said:
Is the pope CATHOLIC...?
in other words a resounding 'YES'!
Christendom is political power. it is Church and State. Like other patriarchal religious beliefs, and secular beliefs, it GUILTS the believer.
We are told that we are sinful, and need redemption, and that it is Jesus Christ who will set us free if we follow their religion.
So you make the believers into quaking angst ridden people who mistrust themselves, feel guilty about their body/ "flesh" and sexuality, and even sexual thoughts!.....then they have got you. Authority then calls the shots. because you mistrust your SELF, your natrual being, you MUST trust them--they become like your surrogate parents, withe 'main men', at the top of this hierarchy of power, the 'Father and Son' (who are 'one') waiting to receive you.
No doubt these beliefs have given some people comfort, but they have also destryoed many peoples lives, not only due to the inevitable conflicts between those for and against the religion, and the wars carried out to 'spread the 'Word'' etc, buth the sense of guilt about sex, especially for thos e labelled damned, like Queers. many who joined the church....hehe (as long as they dont practice)
but i am not happy with half measures. my way has been to explore deeper the origins of this belief, and that led me into other areas
Fundamentally they--the Christians replaced a sacramental spiritual DIRECt experience--as given by hallucingenic inspiration, for a ritual that has people eating stale old wafers, and thin wine, and officiants whining in Latin...which at least has SOME errr magic, and the poor proddy dont even get that. rather a utilitarian service and the fkin work ethic. workin for 'God'. ie., twinned with Stae's industrial fascism. hardly spiritual experience
so yeah yous all been conned right up the a**
funnily enough i wasn't brought up religious. but the society we are in--even thought it pretend to be 'secular' still obviously promulgates the christian myth in its insitutions in various ways. plus parents attitudes about sexuality (remember, i am Queer, and had to HIDe about this till i was 17!
so my experience is this: that if I was so affected by the religious propaganda, what the bloody hell is it like for one REALLY indoctrinated in it from an early age! the mind boggles. it must be incredibly hard to break away. how many lives these belief systems must have destroyed...what with the fear of hell and damnation 'etc'
i saw this drama documentary a while back on Tv which has stuck in my mind. it was set in Ireland in the 30s and whowed these two teachers teaching these little kids about christianity. the bombastic teacher told them to imagine a beach, and to imagine picking up A grain of sand and taking it to somewhere away from the beach. he says something like. remember childre, that for ever grain of sand --and therer are millions--that is NOTHING to the days and nights suffering hell and damnation. Nothing!'...i mean that is fkin EVIL. they were basically totally screwing up those childrens sense of being
when trainind doing art i met two women in a period of 3 years who didn't knw each other. both were Catholics and both had had masectomies, and both blamed catholic guilt for the disease!
so my experience is this: that if I was so affected by the religious propaganda, what the bloody hell is it like for one REALLY indoctrinated in it from an early age! the mind boggles. it must be incredibly hard to break away. how many lives these belief systems must have destroyed...what with the fear of hell and damnation 'etc'
i saw this drama documentary a while back on Tv which has stuck in my mind. it was set in Ireland in the 30s and whowed these two teachers teaching these little kids about christianity. the bombastic teacher told them to imagine a beach, and to imagine picking up A grain of sand and taking it to somewhere away from the beach. he says something like. remember childre, that for ever grain of sand --and therer are millions--that is NOTHING to the days and nights suffering hell and damnation. Nothing!'...i mean that is fkin EVIL. they were basically totally screwing up those childrens sense of being
when trainind doing art i met two women in a period of 3 years who didn't knw each other. both were Catholics and both had had masectomies, and both blamed catholic guilt for the disease!
duendy: Christendom is political power.
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M*W: True. Of course christians deny this, but in the USA, the religious right does have a strong political voice. It scares me.
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duendy: Like other patriarchal religious beliefs, and secular beliefs, it GUILTS the believer.
*************
M*W: True. Guilt is a powerful control mechanism.
*************
duendy: We are told that we are sinful, and need redemption, and that it is Jesus Christ who will set us free if we follow their religion.
*************
M*W: True, and they do this out of their own guilt. It's like the bite of the vampire -- the "body and the blood," etc.
*************
duendy: So you make the believers into quaking angst ridden people who mistrust themselves, feel guilty about their body/ "flesh" and sexuality, and even sexual thoughts!.....then they have got you.
*************
M*W: True. This is because, as you are well aware, our sexuality is a very basic need right up there with air, water and food.
*************
duendy: Authority then calls the shots. because you mistrust your SELF, your natrual being, you MUST trust them--they become like your surrogate parents, withe 'main men', at the top of this hierarchy of power, the 'Father and Son' (who are 'one') waiting to receive you.
*************
M*W: True. When the fishers of men have cast out their alluring redemptive bait to catch the scavengers of the scum of the sea, the lesser educated fish lunge for the bite. Then they start reeling them in, one by ignorant one, and their reprogramming begins. The crippling guilt implanted within prevents the "fish" from wanting to jump back into the sea.
*************
duendy: No doubt these beliefs have given some people comfort, but they have also destryoed many peoples lives, not only due to the inevitable conflicts between those for and against the religion, and the wars carried out to 'spread the 'Word'' etc, buth the sense of guilt about sex, especially for thos e labelled damned, like Queers. many who joined the church....hehe (as long as they dont practice)
*************
M*W: True. If there was a god, then everyone would be equal in the eyes of god.
*************
duendy: Fundamentally the Christians replaced a sacramental spiritual DIRECt experience--as given by hallucingenic inspiration, for a ritual that has people eating stale old wafers, and thin wine, and officiants whining in Latin...which at least has SOME errr magic...,
*************
M*W: True. How many times have we seen pictures of saints in ecstacy? How many people have we seen in churches everywhere who appear to be in that same state of ecstacy? What about those charismatic pentecostals who wave their hands, chant, and dance in the aisles? And, the snake handlers who died trying to prove their ecstacy prevented them from the bite? Ecstacy is a result of self-induced endorphins. It's a quite natural process. It comes from within and not from without. Catholic christianity performs magick tricks and implores one to believe in magick. There is nothing hidden about. The officiant changes wine into blood and bread into flesh right before your very eyes -- viola-presto-chango! Then he calls those who believe in this magick to cannibalize none other than their very own dying demigod holy magickal sacrifice!
*************
M*W: True. Of course christians deny this, but in the USA, the religious right does have a strong political voice. It scares me.
*************
duendy: Like other patriarchal religious beliefs, and secular beliefs, it GUILTS the believer.
*************
M*W: True. Guilt is a powerful control mechanism.
*************
duendy: We are told that we are sinful, and need redemption, and that it is Jesus Christ who will set us free if we follow their religion.
*************
M*W: True, and they do this out of their own guilt. It's like the bite of the vampire -- the "body and the blood," etc.
*************
duendy: So you make the believers into quaking angst ridden people who mistrust themselves, feel guilty about their body/ "flesh" and sexuality, and even sexual thoughts!.....then they have got you.
*************
M*W: True. This is because, as you are well aware, our sexuality is a very basic need right up there with air, water and food.
*************
duendy: Authority then calls the shots. because you mistrust your SELF, your natrual being, you MUST trust them--they become like your surrogate parents, withe 'main men', at the top of this hierarchy of power, the 'Father and Son' (who are 'one') waiting to receive you.
*************
M*W: True. When the fishers of men have cast out their alluring redemptive bait to catch the scavengers of the scum of the sea, the lesser educated fish lunge for the bite. Then they start reeling them in, one by ignorant one, and their reprogramming begins. The crippling guilt implanted within prevents the "fish" from wanting to jump back into the sea.
*************
duendy: No doubt these beliefs have given some people comfort, but they have also destryoed many peoples lives, not only due to the inevitable conflicts between those for and against the religion, and the wars carried out to 'spread the 'Word'' etc, buth the sense of guilt about sex, especially for thos e labelled damned, like Queers. many who joined the church....hehe (as long as they dont practice)
*************
M*W: True. If there was a god, then everyone would be equal in the eyes of god.
*************
duendy: Fundamentally the Christians replaced a sacramental spiritual DIRECt experience--as given by hallucingenic inspiration, for a ritual that has people eating stale old wafers, and thin wine, and officiants whining in Latin...which at least has SOME errr magic...,
*************
M*W: True. How many times have we seen pictures of saints in ecstacy? How many people have we seen in churches everywhere who appear to be in that same state of ecstacy? What about those charismatic pentecostals who wave their hands, chant, and dance in the aisles? And, the snake handlers who died trying to prove their ecstacy prevented them from the bite? Ecstacy is a result of self-induced endorphins. It's a quite natural process. It comes from within and not from without. Catholic christianity performs magick tricks and implores one to believe in magick. There is nothing hidden about. The officiant changes wine into blood and bread into flesh right before your very eyes -- viola-presto-chango! Then he calls those who believe in this magick to cannibalize none other than their very own dying demigod holy magickal sacrifice!
"Institutionalized religion" is an oxymoron. True religion, by its very nature, must be personal and revelatory. The only schools that even vaguely approach this are gnostic and mystical. Even these trend towards the dialectic, caught up in accretions of symbology and metaphor. Reason presents itself as a solution to what is inherently beyond reason. While individuals within any school may transcend the merely ecstatic, the schools themselves, and most of their congregation, founder. Metaphor becomes doctrine and instruction becomes tradition, falling far short of experience, stuck between the literal and the transcendence of experience institutional religion becomes a dead end.
~Raithere
~Raithere
I noticed that Brutus, Jenyar, truth-something-or-other, and water championed their faith in the poll but haven't voiced their convictions in the thread.
Pity. Perhaps they realize the perversion of pre-christian beliefs as represented in their own symbology? Perhaps they see the perversion of an instrument of torture as their symbol of truth as just?
Who knows?
Pity. Perhaps they realize the perversion of pre-christian beliefs as represented in their own symbology? Perhaps they see the perversion of an instrument of torture as their symbol of truth as just?
Who knows?
SkinWalker: I noticed that Brutus, Jenyar, truth-something-or-other, and water championed their faith in the poll but haven't voiced their convictions in the thread.
Pity. Perhaps they realize the perversion of pre-christian beliefs as represented in their own symbology? Perhaps they see the perversion of an instrument of torture as their symbol of truth as just?
Who knows?
*************
M*W: Or, perhaps Brutus, Jenyar, Water and Truth, see their particular faith as being of separate origins and solely justified as being the "only true faith," unlike each others'.
Or, maybe they have not studied early christianity thoroughly enough to fully understand the meaning of the symbolic and ritual practices of the Essenes, for example, who lived in aesthetically confined communities, some with men only, and co-ed in others, who performed sexual rituals of eating each other's flesh (symbolically, of course), and drinking menstrual blood of women and semen of the men for spiritual purification. Of course, there would have to have been some momemtary ecstacy in practicing these rituals.
Pity. Perhaps they realize the perversion of pre-christian beliefs as represented in their own symbology? Perhaps they see the perversion of an instrument of torture as their symbol of truth as just?
Who knows?
*************
M*W: Or, perhaps Brutus, Jenyar, Water and Truth, see their particular faith as being of separate origins and solely justified as being the "only true faith," unlike each others'.
Or, maybe they have not studied early christianity thoroughly enough to fully understand the meaning of the symbolic and ritual practices of the Essenes, for example, who lived in aesthetically confined communities, some with men only, and co-ed in others, who performed sexual rituals of eating each other's flesh (symbolically, of course), and drinking menstrual blood of women and semen of the men for spiritual purification. Of course, there would have to have been some momemtary ecstacy in practicing these rituals.
"Of course, there would have to have been some momemtary ecstacy in practicing these rituals."
Of course.
Of course.
i am sure that when the people went into those cathedrals with those huge beautiful stained glass windows they had their minds blown.
I love stained glass, and it's truly magical with the different coloured light, and images.
but of course its the dogma behind all of that that ruins the core of it. nless YOU are happy with it. i am not. i would want different images telling a different tale if need be. but i would SOONEr be in a natural setting. wild and forever changing
I love stained glass, and it's truly magical with the different coloured light, and images.
but of course its the dogma behind all of that that ruins the core of it. nless YOU are happy with it. i am not. i would want different images telling a different tale if need be. but i would SOONEr be in a natural setting. wild and forever changing
Depends on what you call "christianity"....
suzukisfrog
Registered Senior Member
jesus can kiss my big fat black ass, if i had one. 
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TruthSeeker said:
i suppose i mean the whole movement with all its it little cults and offspring. the crusade to convert the planet to one way of thinking (quite a narrow way of thinking), and to bring everyone under the guidance of the divine priesthood, by whatever means they can justify.
SkinWalker said:
I haven't "championed my faith" in the poll.
I'm not a Christian.
I find it dreadful, the amount of strawmen I see here about Christianity and faith in general; I try to address them as often as I can. But what can one do, when so many people are interested only in revenge and venting?
ellion said:
Putting all Christians in one and the same box is a hasty generalization.
As a counterexample, I'll quote Cris
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?p=766785#post766785
Medicine Woman said:
I'll quote you Raithere, to emphasize what he said:
You, Medicine Woman, seem to believe that religion is about the
"/study of/ early christianity thoroughly enough to fully understand the meaning of the symbolic and ritual practices".
That the only way to be religious is to be "institutionally religious", to be "mainstream Christianity" -- or one isn't religious at all ...?
"Metaphor becomes doctrine and instruction becomes tradition, falling far short of experience, stuck between the literal and the transcendence of experience institutional religion becomes a dead end." -- this is what happened to you, and now you blame Christianity.
You wanted to learn the rituals, the rules (so you said) -- and this is what Christianity was to you -- rituals and rules. No wonder it was a dead end for you.
Medicine Woman said:
This is what you read into my words, since you think of religion in such instiutionalized ways.
It is not about my faith having "separate origins", it is not about being the "only true faith, unlike each others".
It is personal, in that it is mine, and the only authority is God -- not some particular church.