Is becoming like God good or evil?

Greatest I am

Greatest I am

Valued Senior Member
Is becoming like God good or evil?

I would like to restrict giving God any other attribute except for knowing good and evil in this thread. Just for simplicity.

I have two quotes I would like you to consider.

“Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil.”

“Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.”

Knowing good and evil is the same as developing or gaining a moral sense. This is something that all governments and religions wish to develop in us and seems like a good idea to me.

If being perfect like God means that we must have the knowledge of good and evil, then Adam and Eve had to eat of the tree of knowledge ---- if they were to accomplish what most seem to think is a worthy goal. Morals. As God says in Eden, such is to have your eyes opened. A good thing IOW.

In the Jewish view, A & E did the right thing and they name it our elevation. In the Christian view, they did the wrong thing and call it our fall.

Is becoming as Gods, in the moral sense, good or evil?

If evil, please explain what is evil about developing a moral sense and following scriptures that tell us to be as Gods.

Regards
DL
 
If God claims to know good and evil, why doesn't he act that way? The Biblical God is immoral in the extreme.
 
Greatest I am said:
Is becoming like God good or evil?

I would like to restrict giving God any other attribute except for knowing good and evil in this thread. Just for simplicity.
Click to expand...
If you define God (or the attributes of God) as "he that knows good and evil", then becoming like God is, in and of itself, neither good nor bad.
It is surely what is then done with the knowledge (of good and evil) that defines one (from a subjective human position) as being good or evil.
If one does that which one knows to be evil, then one defines oneself as evil.
If one does that which one knows to be good, then one degines oneself as good.
 
The quest to "define" God, or a god as something other than ourselves (perhaps also other than all forms of life) is already self-referencing.

The only solution is to conclude that we (as one of the forms of life) are that which considers its own existence, hence we must be God. The OP provides support for this hypothesis; it illustrates only a capacity for conjecture and (necessary) self-reference. The hypothesis that you, me and every other human "is" God is just as valid, therefore. It works for me.

Think about it: why do you believe you can even define good or evil? Wasn't that God's "job"?
 
Sarkus said:
If you define God (or the attributes of God) as "he that knows good and evil", then becoming like God is, in and of itself, neither good nor bad.
It is surely what is then done with the knowledge (of good and evil) that defines one (from a subjective human position) as being good or evil.
If one does that which one knows to be evil, then one defines oneself as evil.
If one does that which one knows to be good, then one degines oneself as good.
Click to expand...

Sure but to define yourself as either, you must have the knowledge of good and evil. Right?

Regards
DL
 
spidergoat said:
If God claims to know good and evil, why doesn't he act that way? The Biblical God is immoral in the extreme.
Click to expand...

I have two quotes to consider:
“There is no good and evil; only power and those too weak to see it.” (J.K. Rowling)

“God did not create evil. Just as darkness is the absence of light, evil is the absence of God.” (Albert Einstein)

At least in Christianity, the question about the state of the world and the morality of God has been an important one. I believe most would say something like: God has 'given' Man free will, we choose to do evil - not God.

Personally, I used to be worried about good and evil, until I started to wonder what the words actually mean.
Now I am taoist.
 
arfa brane said:
The quest to "define" God, or a god as something other than ourselves (perhaps also other than all forms of life) is already self-referencing.

The only solution is to conclude that we (as one of the forms of life) are that which considers its own existence, hence we must be God. The OP provides support for this hypothesis; it illustrates only a capacity for conjecture and (necessary) self-reference. The hypothesis that you, me and every other human "is" God is just as valid, therefore. It works for me.

Think about it: why do you believe you can even define good or evil? Wasn't that God's "job"?
Click to expand...

As a Gnostic Christian who has suffered apotheosis, I recognize that we are all God WIP's. Works in progress. Apotheosis defined as reaching and beginning to climb Jacob's ladder.

Seeking God is a never ending search, even after one finds him.

Regards
DL
 
Merlijn said:
I have two quotes to consider:
“There is no good and evil; only power and those too weak to see it.” (J.K. Rowling)

“God did not create evil. Just as darkness is the absence of light, evil is the absence of God.” (Albert Einstein)

At least in Christianity, the question about the state of the world and the morality of God has been an important one. I believe most would say something like: God has 'given' Man free will, we choose to do evil - not God.

Personally, I used to be worried about good and evil, until I started to wonder what the words actually mean.
Now I am taoist.
Click to expand...

Even a taoist must do evil. Let me explain.

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by whipping out their favorite "free will!", or “ it’s all man’s fault”.

That is "God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy."

But this simply avoids God's culpability as the author of Human Nature. Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all sin by nature then, the sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not sin.


Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that evil is all human generated. Evil is our responsibility.

Much has been written to explain what I see as a natural part of evolution.

Consider.
First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created.

Evil then is only human to human.
As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.
Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil at all times.

Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.

This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.

Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, we should all see that what Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanks for being available to us. Wherever it came from. God or nature.

There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be. We all must do what some will think is evil as we compete and create losers to this competition.

Regards
DL
 
Merlijn said:
I have two quotes to consider:
“There is no good and evil; only power and those too weak to see it.” (J.K. Rowling)
Click to expand...
Snot J.K Rowling. She's only paraphrasing or rephrasing what a few other philosophers have said before.

Basically, becoming as god is to determine and dictate what is good or evil. The "as" is deliberate.
 
Greatest I am, what do you mean by 'evil'?

To me, the word has lost meaning.
Of course, in everyday life I can use it losely to mean some voluntary act that has deliberate harmful effects (or, rather: the intention of doing such an act).
 
*laughs* Yeah fair enough. Considering the site we're posting on... still, "speak to the unbeliever in the language of his unbelief" can be taken to too far an extreme, yes?
 
God the father is morally neutral. He is similar to natural instinct; does what is needed to promoted the biggest picture of life on the longest time scale. Knowledge of good and evil is more about short term thinking. This is why Satan is placed in the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

The difference has to do with scope of perception within time and space. For example, if someone looks back at their life, there are often things you would change (appear evil in this longer term). But at the time (localized short term) when one was making those choices, the choice appeared to be the correct (appear good in the short term). What appears good in the short term can be bad in the longer term. This is why that tree was given to Satan. He is partially true.

Knowledge of good and evil changes with time perception, since what is good today may not be good tomorrow. God by being morally neutral is more like a longer term POV, that makes choices based on the longest term. What may appear good or evil in the short term may add up differently in the longest term. One does not judge in the short term but assumes God will be correct in the longest term, like natural instinct.

The tree of knowledge of good and evil and Satan is all about short term thinking apart from the longer term evolution and natural instinct. When free will evolved, short term was easier to do, since it only has to process a tiny data field. Long term is harder since it involved more data.

For example, the heroin user will see good in the short term if he gets his daily fix of junk. This knowledge of good works in the short term, but as we expand time perception to a life time, it is not so good. If he could only think in the short-term (here and now) and had no long term perception, the junkie would do this again and again, since it is good again and again at that time scale. If he suddenly developed long term perception, the data field will expand and he will see it differently. But that is harder to do; more data.

When God says the moment you eat of this tree you shall surely die, it has to do with departure from the natural long term vision of natural instinct. The junkie is in the now and can't see self destruction, but rather thinks this behavior is always good due to pleasure. If you brain wash a culture to think short term anything can appear good in short time. This is why Satan is attached to that tree.

The tree of life is about longest term perception (live forever). It is based on that which adds up positively in the longest term, but may not appear perfect at the level of second to second perception. The parent says do your homework so you can get into a good college. The child sees how he will miss his TV program therefore it is evil. The short term conflict will not be noticed if one is thinking longest term; morally neutral in short term. It is what it is.

St. Paul said:

All things are lawful but not all things edify, all things are lawful but I will not be mastered by anything. Moral judgement to him was neutral day to day, but over time it add to the fullness of life in away that comes out positive.

The movement in culture has been away from longer term into short term thinking. There is a dumb down to it since this is easier. What is good in the shortest term may not add up in the longer term. One does became like a short term god, but it does not last when the hangover happens. Morally neutral is less structured in the short term, and finds a sense of balance that adds up in the end.
 
wellwisher said:
God the father is morally neutral.
Click to expand...

God will see. He must come to choose between pacifism, or war, faith, or temptation. Whats the crime of the murder, vs. he who killed the murder?

If God were neutral then the world should be still, and good and evil will co-exist forever.
 
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Wellwisher, that actually wasn't a completely terrible post.

Grammar and difficulty of reading aside; It just completely escapes me why you need any concept of "god" to come to all of that.

Hell, man, if you can undo a bolt by hand, don't bother getting a wrench out of the toolbox.
 
Merlijn said:
I have two quotes to consider:
“There is no good and evil; only power and those too weak to see it.” (J.K. Rowling)

“God did not create evil. Just as darkness is the absence of light, evil is the absence of God.” (Albert Einstein)

At least in Christianity, the question about the state of the world and the morality of God has been an important one. I believe most would say something like: God has 'given' Man free will, we choose to do evil - not God.

Personally, I used to be worried about good and evil, until I started to wonder what the words actually mean.
Now I am taoist.
Click to expand...

Great, another person defending something he doesn't even believe in.
 
Greatest I am said:
Is becoming like God good or evil?

I would like to restrict giving God any other attribute except for knowing good and evil in this thread. Just for simplicity.

I have two quotes I would like you to consider.

“Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil.”

“Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.”

Knowing good and evil is the same as developing or gaining a moral sense. This is something that all governments and religions wish to develop in us and seems like a good idea to me.

If being perfect like God means that we must have the knowledge of good and evil, then Adam and Eve had to eat of the tree of knowledge ---- if they were to accomplish what most seem to think is a worthy goal. Morals. As God says in Eden, such is to have your eyes opened. A good thing IOW.

In the Jewish view, A & E did the right thing and they name it our elevation. In the Christian view, they did the wrong thing and call it our fall.

Is becoming as Gods, in the moral sense, good or evil?

If evil, please explain what is evil about developing a moral sense and following scriptures that tell us to be as Gods.

Regards
DL
Click to expand...
maybe you didnt know this,but its humans who created God not vice versa,
thats why he is described having human characteristics
www.evilbible.com
 
Greatest I am said:
...

Is becoming as Gods, in the moral sense, good or evil?

If evil, please explain what is evil about developing a moral sense and following scriptures that tell us to be as Gods.

Regards
DL
Click to expand...

you know a way to test whether becoming closer to God and becoming like God and whether that is good or evil is to find influential people in our world who have come to control the lives of many people, directly on indirectly and what they did with this power. Mark Zuckenberg for example...and the recent issue raised of his image as a "boyish king with quest for world domination". That is obviously seen as evil image, of someone who has become closer to functions of God, than any other human.

scorpius said:
maybe you didnt know this,but its humans who created God not vice versa,
thats why he is described having human characteristics
www.evilbible.com
Click to expand...

Where is the proof that the original idea of God was created by humans?
 
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