Is Atheism a guilt response?

[Simon Anders]

you do realize that communism has nothing to do with atheism??

http://www.nobeliefs.com/facts.htm#anchor199422

Communists tend to be athiests. So if atheists, who also happen to be communists can guilt trip and feel guilty, then one does not have to be religious to feel and try to instill guilt.

I was responding to a claim that guilt was purely a religious phenomenon.

I read your link. The fact remains that communists have a much greater tendency to be atheists than other people.

But let me ask a direct question.

Do you think guilt would end if religions ended?

(And by the way, I have communist friends, some of whom are religious some are not. Most are not. I just want to be clear that I am not saying atheists must be communists or that communists must be atheists.)

 

[glaucon]

Oh, no. As you would say: I disagree.

I have one atheist parent, and this parent was quite capable of a hearty guilt trip. And eventually spent some time in therapy specifically to deal with guilt. 2 generation also.

I didn't mean to imply that religion was required for guilt to be present; merely that (as you point out..) it does a good job at disseminating it.

Do you really want to say that a necessary condition for guilt is belief in God?

Not at all. And do note that I specifically did not mention "God".
I chose the word "religion" carefully.

My problem with this thread, and the POV of its creator, is that it expresses some sort of intrinsic relation between atheism and guilt. The two are clearly not necessarily related. An analogous question would be: 'Is Democracy a response to lack of confidence?' The OP doesn't seem to understand the syntactical applications of words.

 

[swarm]

So I'm still a bit vague here. Does unresolved guilt mean you ran out of gold leaf before you were done or does it mean you still have some left?

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

It means you're trapped in a gilded cage.

 

[Simon Anders]

So I'm still a bit vague here. Does unresolved guilt mean you ran out of gold leaf before you were done or does it mean you still have some left?

gilt
guilt

 

[Carico]

Has there been any studies done on atheists as a group to investigate unresolved guilt?

Anyone who goes to the extreme of having to make up his own history to deny that Jesus is Lord has a guilt problem because that isn't even a good reason to deny Jesus.

 

[Enmos]

Anyone who goes to the extreme of having to make up his own history to deny that Jesus is Lord has a guilt problem because that isn't even a good reason to deny Jesus.

How exactly are atheists making up their own history ?
And even if so, how is not having a good reason for it signifying a guilt problem ?

 

[Balerion]

Communists tend to be athiests.

I'm sorry? Dude, can you cite me some statistics that would demonstrate this?

 

[rjr6]

Just? Isn't a name what lets us know what something is?

It has a random origin but does not have any meaning intended to be inferred or decrypted.

 

[rjr6]

Ah, I see. I meant that in this society, that kind of guilt can lead to religion. I didn't mean that it resulted from religion.



Of course they do.



Oh, OK. I get what you're saying. No, I didn't intend for people to take from it that I felt there was guilt that came from religion...although, on second thought, yes, I suppose there is, in some cases. Ask a Catholic, as the saying goes, right? But that wasn't my intention, however true it may be.

What is the basis of your categorizing guilt into "types"?

 

[Balerion]

What is the basis of your categorizing guilt into "types"?

Based on their causes.

 

[Mr. Hamtastic]

I killed a bug=I feel there is no God?

Anger response, maybe

A bug killed my lover=I feel there is no God.

I can see that happening.

 

[Mr. Hamtastic]

Or wait, Are you trying to say God should feel guilty for not evidencing to Atheists better?

 

[Mr. Hamtastic]

Your position is simply unclear, rjr6, despite your sig"theists". Perhaps you are seeking the attentions of theists, perhaps just provoking a debate over something that doesn't seem to have any grounds. What is your position, specifically?

 

[rjr6]

Your position is simply unclear, rjr6, despite your sig"theists". Perhaps you are seeking the attentions of theists, perhaps just provoking a debate over something that doesn't seem to have any grounds. What is your position, specifically?

The thread topic could be interpreted as a provocation, though it originated as an honest thought/question.

This thread is simply investigating guilt and it's maybe connection with atheism, or the act of seeking and holding atheistic beliefs. Since you invoked my position, I simply don't have one, completely, I am seeking information.

I will change my sig if it is causing confusion. What is your definition of theists? If my question sounds patronizing it is not meant to. I firmly and wholeheartedly believe that confusion arising from definitions of words is at the root of most disagreements. It is really a superfulous problem that is easily corrected, allowing that both parties are not hiding behind their words.

 

[rjr6]

Based on their causes.

Are there different types of guilt or different causes of guilt?

 

[Simon Anders]

Are there different types of guilt or different causes of guilt?

Guilt is generally about something you did or something you want to do. So it atheism somehow had guilt at its root, I think one would need to show what the atheists did that they feel guilty about and in relation to whom.

 

[Simon Anders]

I'm sorry? Dude, can you cite me some statistics that would demonstrate this?

Best I can find so far is this:
http://www.jstor.org/pss/3712507
(you can't even read the whole article, but the abstract and the opening give some sense.

Both Lenin and Trotsky were very anti-religious and this had strong effects on Soviet and other communisms.

But you know I only raised the issue when it seemed someone was saying: end religion, guilt ends. Once we cleared up that was not what he meant, I lost interest.

 

[Mr. Hamtastic]

rjr6-theists implies that there are more than one of you, or you are stating it in a-smack self in the head,"Theists!"-way. My issue is that I don't know how to help you without you being more specific. It infuriates people when I say things like,"What is blue?". It's tough to answer an amorphus question. What information would you like? I think the matter of whether a study has been done has been beaten sufficiently to a pulp. Your newest question, are there different types of guilt or just different causes, can be answered simply, or with complexity. Simply guilt is one thing which can be caused by many things. A drop of complexity for you, Things which make me feel guilty probably have little or no effect on Simon Anders. Perhaps if he was my best buddy from next door who I did everything with... Even then, totally different paths to guilt. I step on a bug, I feel guilty. Does he feel guilty for me stepping on a bug? How about that he didn't stop me? Maybe he liked the squish, and feels guilty for liking it.

And I'd just like to point out to the side discussion about communists being atheists, communist governments which try to impose atheism have a hard time controlling their populace's thoughts and beliefs. Individuals who are communists are probably split between theists and atheists.

 

[swarm]

Simon Anders
gilt guilt

OK, so unresolved guilt means you feel bad about having run out of gold leaf before you were done or does it mean you still have some left?