Iraq: Violence 70% Down Since June

spidergoat said:
It was more like 595 in October.
http://icasualties.org/oif/IraqiDeathsByYear.aspx

2007 sees the worst bombings ever – and more of them
Early indications are that roughly 20,000 violent civilian deaths will be recorded for the first 9 months of 2007. By year’s end, 2007 looks to be the second-worst calendar year for violence in Iraq since the 2003 invasion, trailing only behind 2006, and still almost twice as deadly for civilians as the first year.

It is important to place the events of 2007 in context. Levels of violence reached an all-time high in the last six months of 2006. Only in comparison to that could the first half of 2007 be regarded as an improvement. Despite any efforts put into the surge, the first six months of 2007 was still the most deadly first six months for civilians of any year since the invasion.
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See spider? imagine if they listened to you where we would have been now.

I just checked those bars again. If you checked the non-civilian casualties you'd find that the numbers now are lower than they have ever been.

Who would have known that the words of president Bush would turn out to be so much true.
 
hani said:
I just checked those bars again. If you checked the non-civilian casualties you'd find that the numbers now are lower than they have ever been.
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They are higher than the spring of 2005, just to pick one.

hani said:
Who would have known that the words of president Bush would turn out to be so much true.
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What words were those ? That the sectarian cleansing would have mostly succeeded by January 2008, with the biggest wave of Christian refugees fleeing Baghdad occurring in the last half of 2007 ?
 
The security forces deaths are lower than ever, look well.

http://icasualties.org/oif/IraqiDeathsByYear.aspx

Actually I didn't hear him say that. I don't think it's like him to say things as optimistic as that. I told you before you shouldn't jump to too rosy conclusions like "there will never be again sectarian cleansing in Iraq, so we don't have to worry about it anymore."
 
hani said:
The security forces deaths are lower than ever, look well.

http://icasualties.org/oif/IraqiDeathsByYear.aspx
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They are higher than the spring of 2005, among other times, according to that link.

hani said:
Actually I didn't hear him say that. I don't think it's like him to say things as optimistic as that. I told you before you shouldn't jump to too rosy conclusions like "there will never be again sectarian cleansing in Iraq, so we don't have to worry about it anymore."
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If you are going to find happiness in seeing W's words come true, you really ought to have some idea of exactly what words those were.

I don't think W has even acknowledged the scale of the sectarian and ethnic cleansings under his occupation regime, let alone made predictions of their future course.

And we note that the prospect of less ethnic cleansing in Iraq is not necessarily the rosiest of conclusions. If it marks lasting victory for some of the several enemies of "our" alleged intentions, it might characterize a state of lasting defeat for "us", no?
 
Nah, still in denial, we'll double the blood in both countries before confronting withdrawal symptoms.
 
hypewaders said:
Nah, still in denial, we'll double the blood in both countries before confronting withdrawal symptoms.
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Why stop there? India and China are right at the border.

A global war is so much better for the arms industry.
 
count said:
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNe...15739020071231
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http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/63/21889
The American and Iraqi armies began construction of a wall encircling Al-Dora, a southern Baghdad neighborhood, on Tuesday, August 15. Soldiers positioned prefabricated concrete barriers "to prevent terrorists from getting in," according to the American Army.

Although Al-Dora is a vast mixed neighborhood, the operation in this specific case consists of isolating an area inhabited mostly by Sunnis in order to protect it from Shiite militia incursions. Since Baghdad has been prey to civil war and transfers have been occurring between Shiite and Sunni populations, Al-Dora has been one of the neighborhoods most affected by inter-community violence.

Acknowledging the failure of the "Forward Together" security plan launched in June, the American Army and Iraqi security forces unveiled a new strategy August 11 {2006} that consists of separating Baghdad neighborhoods according to sectarian criteria. "We shall concentrate ourselves on sectarian borders, go into those sectors, clean them out, install security forces, bring economic aid, and work with local leaders so people feel safe," explained the multinational force commandant, American General George Casey. The objective is "to clean up Baghdad before Ramadan," the end of September.
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,2062426,00.html
Since the US-led invasion, "ethnic cleansing" has resulted in population shifts that have left Baghdad increasingly divided on sectarian grounds, separated by the Tigris which runs through the centre of the city. Sunnis are consolidating on the west side and Shias on the east. The wall is being built round the biggest remaining Sunni enclave on the east bank, at Adhamiya. Referred to by US troops as the Great Wall of Adhamiya, it is surrounded on three sides by Shia neighbourhoods and has been the scene of some of the city's worst violence.

There was confusion about the wall at US HQ. Major-General William Caldwell, the usual US spokesman in Baghdad, said on Wednesday he was unaware of efforts to build a wall. "Our goal is to unify Baghdad, not subdivide it into separate [enclaves]," he said. But a US military press release from Camp Victory provided extensive details about the construction. It said: "The area the wall will protect is the largest predominately Sunni neighbourhood in east Baghdad. The wall is one of the centrepieces of a new strategy by coalition and Iraqi forces to break the cycle of sectarian violence."

The strategy involves creating a series of gated communities, in which US and Iraqi troops control entry and exits. The aim is to try to prevent movement by insurgents, in particular suicide bombers.
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Looks like it worked.

So who's winning ? Or perhaps more sensible: what is "winning", these days ?
 
is it too hard to understand that US presence around the world is creating hostility?
 
For US Americans, yes, it still is very hard to understand. We've had it very good, even at the most overbearing height of our stealth empire. We've been raised and educated to firmly believe that we lead and represent the "Free World"; to assume that our foreign-policy intentions are good; to believe that our enemies oppose us out of hatred for freedom, and out of jealousy for our affluence. We've been conditioned to take comfort in, and never doubt the notion that the manifestly just causes of the United States of America cannot be diverted nor perverted. It's such powerful conditioning, that we can't just snap out of it overnight.

But many USAmericans are trying to wake our country up to the painful reality that our national behavior is bringing great harm not only globally- it's causing serious damage to the body and soul, and future prospects of the USA. We're beginning to feel it here in the USA, and our overconfidence is being challenged. It's been a long time coming, but we're changing.
 
hypewaders said:
For US Americans, yes, it still is very hard to understand. We've had it very good, even at the most overbearing height of our stealth empire. We've been raised and educated to firmly believe that we lead and represent the "Free World"; to assume that our foreign-policy intentions are good; to believe that our enemies oppose us out of hatred for freedom, and out of jealousy for our affluence. We've been conditioned to take comfort in, and never doubt the notion that the manifestly just causes of the United States of America cannot be diverted nor perverted. It's such powerful conditioning, that we can't just snap out of it overnight.

But many USAmericans are trying to wake our country up to the painful reality that our national behavior is bringing great harm not only globally- it's causing serious damage to the body and soul, and future prospects of the USA. We're beginning to feel it here in the USA, and our overconfidence is being challenged. It's been a long time coming, but we're changing.
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So what will it take for Americans to wake up and stop their warmongering and conflict inflation?

Not to mention unnecessary bombing of people.
 
Sam: "So what will it take for Americans to wake up and stop their warmongering and conflict inflation?"

Quiet time. The popular sentiment for less strident US foreign policy has been long evident. The political expression of that sentiment has been gradually overcoming the stifling jingoism that followed 9-11. We're slowly arranging ourselves into a more thoughtful national posture toward the rest of the world. Barring major violent provocation of the USA before a more nuanced foreign policy is articulated by leadership, the silent majority will do what they always do: Go with the flow. The politically apathetic will always align themselves with their perceived winning side of politics and issues that they only superficially contemplate. Even so, the failures of the neoconservative era have been more than sufficient to motivate a general shift away from naked exceptionalism. The political momentum in the USA is now noticeably more reasonable than it was 6 years ago.

What's most impeding our reform within the limited time available is a lack of inspired and inspiring leadership, that can articulate a clear alternative to our increasingly-counterproductive bullying and waste. After 9-11 we suffered a rapid political regression, and there remains a risk of suffering another, even deeper regression. Now, there is a natural tendency for return to a more mature collective world view, but it's fragile. Fear (terrorist provocation) could trigger a politically-infantile retreat towards fascism. That's why these months leading up to US elections are critical for the entire world.

For any unscrupulous players (foreign or domestic) seeking a hardening of sentiment, all that is necessary in triggering upheaval is to scare USAmericans while we remain in our psychologically-fragile collective temperament. We're still not strong enough to endure terrorism without losing our wits. Our major media, our political elites, and our irrational fears can all cave in to terror, and revert into further national temper-tantrums. For anyone wanting to upset the world apple-cart, pushing the USA off balance is the obvious answer. The bullseye of international upheaval is clearly emblazoned squarely on the fat ass of the US body politic.

Although we are presently on the mend, an immature understanding of terrorism still lurks within the collective US consciousness. This immaturity leaves us precariously vulnerable to a reversal of recent progress toward greater national realism and humility. What will it take for us to wake up? We need a quiet morning- An new beginning, with ample time to think and talk things carefully through, before a new crisis provokes another impulsive Really Bad Foreign-Policy Day, with all the subsequent blowback.

So far, nobody's rattling our cage. We're in productive national dialogue in the USA. I fervently hope things stay this way for at least the next 10 months. Already, it's as if terrorist provocateurs have already waited too long, and Rudy Giuliani slides downward in national appeal. But the grip of fear can still be suddenly crushing. Here's to peace, quiet, and ample opportunity for the dawning of reason. Like it or not, the world is presently hostage to USAmerican insecurities, so let's all encourage cool heads.
 
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