Throughout time religion has sureley hindered civilization from the egyptions burying their gold to the christian church preventing medical development in the 1500's, wars have also broken out over religion and wouldn't the world progress if supernatural beliefs were quashed?
International Ban on Religion?
- Thread starter Pi-Sudoku
- Start date
I picked hinder, but I protest the question. I find it innadequate to discuss "Religion" so broadly. Christianity and Islam? Bad. but they aren't the only religions around, as their followers and ex-followers seem to act like.
So, proselytizing relgions? Hinder. Other's? that's debatable..
So, proselytizing relgions? Hinder. Other's? that's debatable..
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Pi-Sudoku said:
You are able to ask this question on the back of a world that has evolved through a process of religion. It is true that many religions have outlived their purpose and usefulness, but make no mistake the world was a savage and barbaric place before the current crop of religions came into force.
(you only have to look at how much page space the old testament gives to not having sex with animals or parents to see what sort of place the world was).
In the past many religions have built huge centers of scholarly learning and libraries etc.. Although it is true thay have hampered scientifc progress at times.
Here is a question and example:
The great communist powers of the mid 20th century banned religion. Did they advance quicker or slower than counties that allowed religion to exist???
Please........
You make it seem like that the only wars that ever existed were religious wars.... well, sorry, read a history book, before christianity, not a single war was a religious one all were either ethnical, political or economic......... even most historians place the crusades as being a way to solve Europe's failing economy, and to make the kings fight for one cause rather than fighting each other.........
If you're talking about the problems science faced in medieval europe, well you can't throw that on all christians nor all religions...... Under the rule of the Mu'tazelite Abbasids in the Middle East and Shi'ite Buwayhids in Iran, science propagated in manners that were astonishing....... in China not one record was mentioned that the "Son of Heavens", as they used to call their emperors, ever opposed scientific advancement.
What hinders advancement is stubborness not religion...... Even very well known athiests were hindering that advance (not that they are all like that)... the issue of Evolutionism is against every mathmatical, physical, chemical and biochemical rule that has been discovered; yet its "beleivers" still cling to a sciencefictional MYTH.
But, can I ask you what troubles you with ancient Egyptians burrying THEIR gold....... its theirs, afterall.... the can bury it, melt it, ear it or shoot it to the moon, why do you care???????????????
You make it seem like that the only wars that ever existed were religious wars.... well, sorry, read a history book, before christianity, not a single war was a religious one all were either ethnical, political or economic......... even most historians place the crusades as being a way to solve Europe's failing economy, and to make the kings fight for one cause rather than fighting each other.........
If you're talking about the problems science faced in medieval europe, well you can't throw that on all christians nor all religions...... Under the rule of the Mu'tazelite Abbasids in the Middle East and Shi'ite Buwayhids in Iran, science propagated in manners that were astonishing....... in China not one record was mentioned that the "Son of Heavens", as they used to call their emperors, ever opposed scientific advancement.
What hinders advancement is stubborness not religion...... Even very well known athiests were hindering that advance (not that they are all like that)... the issue of Evolutionism is against every mathmatical, physical, chemical and biochemical rule that has been discovered; yet its "beleivers" still cling to a sciencefictional MYTH.
But, can I ask you what troubles you with ancient Egyptians burrying THEIR gold....... its theirs, afterall.... the can bury it, melt it, ear it or shoot it to the moon, why do you care???????????????
Question on evolution visit this site for more information:
www.darwinism-watch.com
www.darwinism-watch.com
I suggest you read the old testament, that got thousands of religious wars prior to christs birth.(all done for or on the behalf of god)yazdajerd said:
could you suggest an ancient history book other then the bible to read. that has'nt got gods in it.
I'm not saying every war was a religious war but 99.9999% were.
(the norse men fought for odin, the greeks zeus, the persians mithra etc...most wars are about religion.)
so the dark ages are all to do with stubbornness, the crusades and the inquisition,yarzdjerd said:
well we better let all the historians know.
I voted "help." But I do that with regard to religion in the prehistorical sense.
Early religion and belief was very instrumental in giving rise to complexity in human civilizations. I would question whether or not man would have ever domesticated plants or animals without having some form of "belief" that there were gods of rain, fertility, the sun, the underworld, etc.
If man had not believed that crops could fail or that hunting/gathering would be less than successful if the respective gods were not appeased or pleased, then it is quite possible that they wouldn't have developed strategies to improve their chances of success.
After agriculture, men began to associate themselves with gods and elite status arose among the few. This gave rise to monumental architecture which was largely public and religious and, at least initially, open to all. The increase of elitism gradually closed this off to the commoner, but complexity continued as the commoner began to associate the elites with the gods to the point of accepting that the rulers had divine power. Working for the ruling/elite classes was akin to worshipping and honoring them.
No, religion was essential in our past. Or, more accurately, the human willingness to believe was essential in order to help give rise to complexity. I could imagine a world in which sentient, intelligent lifeforms without the innate willingness to believe simply don't develop technology. Instead, they live in harmony with their ecosystems and use only what natural selection has provided for them as they evolved as a subsistance strategy.
Early religion and belief was very instrumental in giving rise to complexity in human civilizations. I would question whether or not man would have ever domesticated plants or animals without having some form of "belief" that there were gods of rain, fertility, the sun, the underworld, etc.
If man had not believed that crops could fail or that hunting/gathering would be less than successful if the respective gods were not appeased or pleased, then it is quite possible that they wouldn't have developed strategies to improve their chances of success.
After agriculture, men began to associate themselves with gods and elite status arose among the few. This gave rise to monumental architecture which was largely public and religious and, at least initially, open to all. The increase of elitism gradually closed this off to the commoner, but complexity continued as the commoner began to associate the elites with the gods to the point of accepting that the rulers had divine power. Working for the ruling/elite classes was akin to worshipping and honoring them.
No, religion was essential in our past. Or, more accurately, the human willingness to believe was essential in order to help give rise to complexity. I could imagine a world in which sentient, intelligent lifeforms without the innate willingness to believe simply don't develop technology. Instead, they live in harmony with their ecosystems and use only what natural selection has provided for them as they evolved as a subsistance strategy.
Does religion help or hinder? Both. It can be and is used for good and bad just like anything else in this world...depends upon the intentions of the person who's using it.
Can you imagine what would have to happen to achieve an international ban on religion? It would have to be the end of the world.
Can you imagine what would have to happen to achieve an international ban on religion? It would have to be the end of the world.
EarthlyVagabond
Registered Member
If there was no such thing as religion, what would our moral codes be based on? Who told you the difference between good and bad? Where did they get it? Where did they get it? Etc...
It all will lead to someone who was probably religious.
It all will lead to someone who was probably religious.
Our morality would then be based on common sense and the overall good of the society. Religion has no dominion over morality and value. Indeed, religion has demonstrated time and again, that morality and values are relative to their own causes and survival. If the priestly classes of religion feel threatened, then moral and value is bent and twisted to fit the moment, giving rise to justification for all manner of wholesale genocide and perversion, much of which is evident in books of biblical mythology such as 2 Samuel.
EarthlyVagabond
Registered Member
SkinWalker:"Our morality would then be based on common sense and the overall good of the society. Religion has no dominion over morality and value."
I have a friend who is an atheist. She was raised in a Christian home, but rejects Christianity. If her moral opinions are supposed to be based on common sense and the overall good of society, why doesn't she approve doing dissections that would benefit not just her knowledge, but medical knowledge in general
I have a friend who is an atheist. She was raised in a Christian home, but rejects Christianity. If her moral opinions are supposed to be based on common sense and the overall good of society, why doesn't she approve doing dissections that would benefit not just her knowledge, but medical knowledge in general
Ask her, don't ask me. I wouldn't presume to understand the worldview of someone whom I've never met or been made aware of through their writings.
I would, however, remind you that morality and values are relative to the individual and to the society in which one is raised. This is evident by the differences of taboos and traditions among the various world cultures. Asking a San Franciscan if they enjoy having a fag during lunch is quite different than asking the same question of a Londoner. Eating steak in Dallas holds a different conotation than doing the same in Bombay.
Yet, throughout all cultures, common sense prevails. In no known culture, regardless of their religion or worldview, is it considered acceptable by the society to slay one's own parents in order to obtain their wealth. There are many such examples of "universal common sense" that cults like to lay claim to having been the originating thought for. Yet they are all still cults adopting common sense.
I would, however, remind you that morality and values are relative to the individual and to the society in which one is raised. This is evident by the differences of taboos and traditions among the various world cultures. Asking a San Franciscan if they enjoy having a fag during lunch is quite different than asking the same question of a Londoner. Eating steak in Dallas holds a different conotation than doing the same in Bombay.
Yet, throughout all cultures, common sense prevails. In no known culture, regardless of their religion or worldview, is it considered acceptable by the society to slay one's own parents in order to obtain their wealth. There are many such examples of "universal common sense" that cults like to lay claim to having been the originating thought for. Yet they are all still cults adopting common sense.
That worked real well for the Romans, didn't it? I mean, the only thing worse than religion is trying to quash it and give them a martyr complex.
EarthlyVagabond
Registered Member
SkinWalker said:
If her morality is relative to her and how she is raised, wouldn't Christianity have had an effect on her? Also, if a person shys away from something or chooses not to follow it, won't the person see knowing it and finding it wrong as a benefit to themself? I was just useing a real person as an applicable example. Besides if Christianity didn't exist or religion in general, people would only hate me for my dashingly rugged looks! *Pulls comb out of back pocket and runs it through his handsome locks*
bad example,Light Travelling said:
those comunist systems werent True comunism as envisioned by the originators of com ideology mr Marx & Engels but a simple dictatorships where those in power still exploited others,True comunism is where everyone is equal and have all they need.
that type of comunism also stiffled human progress,ambition,striving to be better,they forced people to NOT advance,think differently,be creative.
they just wanted everyone to be mindless robot..
not to have any ambition to be different or better..and with
human nature being what it is,(some are more greedy than others)comunism couldnt possibly succeed.
you got it all wrong ..religion with its mythical stories pedled asYazdajerd said:
"The absolute truth" regarding everything, be it morals or creation of life,
world and universe is the only thing that can be called stubborn,..obsolete silly superstitious nonsense and all fiction
and NO evolutionism is NOT a "belief" like some religion.
and NO it doesnt go against any chemical biological rules either,evolution is proven by science to be a fact
www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html
ok what GOOD does religion do besides keeping people in mental bondage to the church thru the constant brainwashing that makes you feel bad about yourselfLori_7 said:
makes you think that youre a SINNER and if you dont kiss Jebus/gods ass real good..you'll burn in hell.