Interesting FBI Document
- Thread starter btimsah
- Start date
There were several thing's which I had a hard time explaining. Firstly, this was in 1947, not 2005. The information this person seems to have makes it hard to discount, where would he have gotten this kind of info? I doubt one could even make it up, without some kind of first-hand knowlege of flying-saucer's. They did'nt have the internet, all they had was radio.
More importantly, if he HAD no first hand knowlege of this, then why would the FBI even posses it? Interestingly, toward the end the writer goes in-depth into the armament of the craft, and it's different compartments. Why the hell would he do that if he'd never seen one?
He suggest's that these craft's or craft (that he studied) could go from one plane of existance to another. This would make sense of abduction's, lack of bodies, Craft's dissapearing so fast. Also, those certain people who claim if ETI does exist they can't travel this far.
Furthermore, even if the guy WAS doing research with recovered flying saucers that does not mean they would believe him. A lot of his theories are just that, but theories born of study and first-hand knowlege in my opinion.
More importantly, if he HAD no first hand knowlege of this, then why would the FBI even posses it? Interestingly, toward the end the writer goes in-depth into the armament of the craft, and it's different compartments. Why the hell would he do that if he'd never seen one?
He suggest's that these craft's or craft (that he studied) could go from one plane of existance to another. This would make sense of abduction's, lack of bodies, Craft's dissapearing so fast. Also, those certain people who claim if ETI does exist they can't travel this far.
Furthermore, even if the guy WAS doing research with recovered flying saucers that does not mean they would believe him. A lot of his theories are just that, but theories born of study and first-hand knowlege in my opinion.
step 1 type out some bullshit
step 2 get a black marker and scribble on it
step 3 photo copy it a few times
step 4 scan it in to your computer
step 5 start a thread on sciforums, or better yet a web page of your own so silly people can talk about it on forums
step 6 laugh at geeks
step 2 get a black marker and scribble on it
step 3 photo copy it a few times
step 4 scan it in to your computer
step 5 start a thread on sciforums, or better yet a web page of your own so silly people can talk about it on forums
step 6 laugh at geeks
btimsah said:There were several thing's which I had a hard time explaining. Firstly, this was in 1947, not 2005. The information this person seems to have makes it hard to discount, where would he have gotten this kind of info? I doubt one could even make it up, without some kind of first-hand knowlege of flying-saucer's. They did'nt have the internet, all they had was radio.
More importantly, if he HAD no first hand knowlege of this, then why would the FBI even posses it? Interestingly, toward the end the writer goes in-depth into the armament of the craft, and it's different compartments. Why the hell would he do that if he'd never seen one?
He suggest's that these craft's or craft (that he studied) could go from one plane of existance to another. Furthermore, even if the guy WAS doing research with recovered flying saucers that does not mean they would believe him. A lot of his theories are just that, but theories born of study and first-hand knowlege in my opinion.
Upon further research the Flying Roll refers to G. H. Frater N.O.M. (Dr. W.W. Westcott) of the Esoteric Order this would explain the multi deminsional explanations.
http://www.golden-dawn.org/gd_fr1.htm
If my theory is correct Dr. W.W. Westcott was doing a radio show on the Round Robin and he believed that he could explain the UFO reports that were the rage through out the country. This document was not meant for the FBI it was most likely script for discussion on the radio.
The document also may be the FBI recording what was said on the Radio Show on the evening in question.
First interesting point is that he explains the behavior of UFO's in reported sightings and tries to explain the science behind the phenomena. In 1947 that is probably the best they could do. Today we have a better understanding of the technology and why it is that the craft seem to disappear.
Also he explains that the people from the strange space ships look like Humans only taller. Well ok this could make sense if Time Travel is a reality in the future and people are traveling back in time to what we perceive as the present then they would most likely be taller because the evolution of our species if you have noticed is getting taller and probably will continue to do so in the future.
Just a thought.
Ophiolite
Valued Senior Member
In the name of the Seven Dragons of Jandahai why would that nonsensical rubbish present any difficulty to construct. I could do it in my sleep. [Insert well known John McEnroe expression]btimsah said:
And cinema, and books, and libraries, and telephones, and telegrams, and newspapers and magazines - and some people actually met face to face and exchanged ideas through conversation. I begin to see why you had a hard time explaining the memorandum!
There is a reason it is called the SciFi channel. I remember when people were on here claiming that the WTC UFO video was real.... it was on the SciFi channel so it must be true!
Anyway.... this is suspect for a few reasons:
1) the date.... come on, that's a giveaway
2) government documents are inked out electronically before release, not by hand.
3) the data was obtained by 'supernormal means'? It tries to mix myths with UFOs and astral projection/remote viewing and does so very poorly.
4) it wasn't an internal memo... it was someone sending unsolicited 'advice' to the government, scientists, and publications.
5) the statement 'can't talk by radio, but can probably by radar' is simply stupid and shows a very basic misunderstanding of technology alogn with a completely unsupported claim about what the UFO can and can't detect.
In short, there isn't a thread of anything in there to believe. You can't even use correctness by authority, because it is most certainly NOT from the government as your title would suggest (not that that would change the matter). Your claim that:
Anyway.... this is suspect for a few reasons:
1) the date.... come on, that's a giveaway
2) government documents are inked out electronically before release, not by hand.
3) the data was obtained by 'supernormal means'? It tries to mix myths with UFOs and astral projection/remote viewing and does so very poorly.
4) it wasn't an internal memo... it was someone sending unsolicited 'advice' to the government, scientists, and publications.
5) the statement 'can't talk by radio, but can probably by radar' is simply stupid and shows a very basic misunderstanding of technology alogn with a completely unsupported claim about what the UFO can and can't detect.
In short, there isn't a thread of anything in there to believe. You can't even use correctness by authority, because it is most certainly NOT from the government as your title would suggest (not that that would change the matter). Your claim that:
is simply incorrect and unsupported.
I doubt it. This wouldn't be high profile enough for the Hoover to actually care.
I agree. There's just no information on who actually wrote it, and for any agency.
When I first read it, I thought it was from a guy who worked for our government on UFO'S. After reading it a few times I get the impression the person who wrote was a lone wolf, well educated man who studied the UFO phenomon somehow. Although, again where would one get information on UFO'S in the 40's? That's what mislead me, more than anything. I doubt he made it up. This guy REALLY believed this stuff, and how serious it was.
I still feel like he studied this stuff first hand, however since the guy's name is not on it and he does not appear to be affiliated with any government agency you might as well book him on the disclosure project's witness list as of now.
When I first read it, I thought it was from a guy who worked for our government on UFO'S. After reading it a few times I get the impression the person who wrote was a lone wolf, well educated man who studied the UFO phenomon somehow. Although, again where would one get information on UFO'S in the 40's? That's what mislead me, more than anything. I doubt he made it up. This guy REALLY believed this stuff, and how serious it was.
I still feel like he studied this stuff first hand, however since the guy's name is not on it and he does not appear to be affiliated with any government agency you might as well book him on the disclosure project's witness list as of now.
I must say I don't know what to make of it. That document is definitely on foia.fbi.gov and it would require the FBI themselves to have been duped into including a forgery in their own published records - unless the foia.fbi.gov site is a fake, somehow. There is a covering message a couple of pages up (in the ufo.pdf document) which states that the message arrived with a July 12 1947 postmark - it also refers to the "captioned" person as having sent it but I can't find any actual reference to who it actually was.
I had typed up a pretty basic rebuttal including my opinion that the document could not have appeared any earlier than 1965 or thereabouts (because of its new age-y characteristics), but by actually getting the FBI document itself, all of that is invalid. Had the date on the letter been as much as a day earlier than 8 July, it would have been distinctly odd (in fact it is still somewhat odd, since the newspapers on that day apparently referrred to "flying disks and saucers" but never actually "flying saucers" - a phrase which did not occur until the Times of London used the phrase a couple of weeks later.)
Strange thing - go to the foia.fbi.gov site and search for this document, and it can't find it. But I don't trust their search engine, maybe it doesn't understand pdf's.
I had typed up a pretty basic rebuttal including my opinion that the document could not have appeared any earlier than 1965 or thereabouts (because of its new age-y characteristics), but by actually getting the FBI document itself, all of that is invalid. Had the date on the letter been as much as a day earlier than 8 July, it would have been distinctly odd (in fact it is still somewhat odd, since the newspapers on that day apparently referrred to "flying disks and saucers" but never actually "flying saucers" - a phrase which did not occur until the Times of London used the phrase a couple of weeks later.)
Strange thing - go to the foia.fbi.gov site and search for this document, and it can't find it. But I don't trust their search engine, maybe it doesn't understand pdf's.
I don't know...
I suppose what we make of this document will directly represent what we make of most UFO/ETI cases we see.
There's nothing wrong with having a bias, but there is something wrong with not being able to admit it. I have a pro-ETI bias, but I still don't know what too make of this memo.
I suppose what we make of this document will directly represent what we make of most UFO/ETI cases we see.
There's nothing wrong with having a bias, but there is something wrong with not being able to admit it. I have a pro-ETI bias, but I still don't know what too make of this memo.
I'm not sure why you keep saying that. There was communication before the internet... namely radio.btimsah said:
We have mental hosptials filed with people who deeply believe that the devil stole thier baby... it doesn't mean anything.
At best he was a remote viewer, but then you have two myths you have to prove.
Persol said:
He identify's where certain weapon compartment's of the UFO was. Their size and a beam they shoot down aircraft with.
You are assuming he is nut's, again, because he does not support a more mundane explanation. There was communication, but not like there is today. I still feel this guy MUST have either studied UFO'S or wrote GREAT UFO fiction.
No, I'm assuming it isn't true. I'm stating that the letter reads as if the information was attributed by remote viewing. Even that being true, he would have never physuically seen a UFO.
You've got to be kidding me. This one claim has shot down any hope that you have any perspective on the world. Is the internet a quick way to communicate.... yeah. Can you communicate without it? Of course.
Believe it or not they did talk about UFOs on the radio. Yes son, once upon a time they did broadcast something besides commercials. But we had to walk to school both ways in bare feet just to afford the radio.
btimsah said:I still feel this guy MUST have either studied UFO'S or wrote GREAT UFO fiction.
The latter is more likely than the former, I'm afraid. If one accepts that the author of that document had first hand knowledge of an ETI-UFO based solely on the details of his account, then we must also accept the accounts of equal or less extraordinary claims of the paranormal. This includes all forms of channeling and medium work, astrology, witchcraft, astral projection, remote viewing, telekinesis, palmistry, phrenology, numerology, and the Energy Machine of Joe Newman.
Each of these has proponents who tell very vivid fantasies in lucid detail, the likes of which create the feeling of belief in those willing to believe; those who claim to have "open" minds, who in fact have their minds very closed to allowing explanations that refute the claims enter their thoughts because they want to believe in the extraordinary over the mundane.
Believing the extraordinary in favor of the mundane is a natural tendancy of humans. Religions have based themselves upon this; con artists have paid themselves with this; and mundane, ordinary people have elevated their esteem and selfish perceptions of status with this.
by SkinWalker:
"This includes all forms of channeling and medium work, astrology, witchcraft, astral projection, remote viewing, telekinesis, palmistry, phrenology, numerology, and the Energy Machine of Joe Newman."
==============================================================
Come on now, SkinWalker, don't you think it is stretching it a little to lump all the above with UFO's? One can get plenty of information concerning UFOs from the FBI
through the Freedom Of Information Act, but how much have you seen on Palm Reading? I do not know what they are or if they are 'extra-terrestrial', but I do know
something strange is happening, as I witnessed something myself which I described
in these forums about a year ago. I also know that proves absolutely nothing to
anyone EXCEPT myself, and I only know it wasn't a 'common' event that I misinterpreted. But, SkinWalker, do you recall the article by Dr. Jacques Vallee that
was linked to by, I believe, Ivan Seeking? Something about 'High Strangeness" that
reminded me of the above document. If I remember correctly, I think it was on the
National Institute of Discovery Science's webpage. I, myself, also gave a link to a
very strange case investigated by NIDS because it reminded me of your handle,
'SkinWalker.' But no, I have never considered multi-universes, String and M-Brane
Theories with their 14 dimensions as having any basis in reality, but who knows for
certain? Dr. Vallee has published a book, 'Revelations', that seems to take this
'counter-intuitive' approach to UFOs.
EDIT: typed too many 't's' in 'intuitive'.
"This includes all forms of channeling and medium work, astrology, witchcraft, astral projection, remote viewing, telekinesis, palmistry, phrenology, numerology, and the Energy Machine of Joe Newman."
==============================================================
Come on now, SkinWalker, don't you think it is stretching it a little to lump all the above with UFO's? One can get plenty of information concerning UFOs from the FBI
through the Freedom Of Information Act, but how much have you seen on Palm Reading? I do not know what they are or if they are 'extra-terrestrial', but I do know
something strange is happening, as I witnessed something myself which I described
in these forums about a year ago. I also know that proves absolutely nothing to
anyone EXCEPT myself, and I only know it wasn't a 'common' event that I misinterpreted. But, SkinWalker, do you recall the article by Dr. Jacques Vallee that
was linked to by, I believe, Ivan Seeking? Something about 'High Strangeness" that
reminded me of the above document. If I remember correctly, I think it was on the
National Institute of Discovery Science's webpage. I, myself, also gave a link to a
very strange case investigated by NIDS because it reminded me of your handle,
'SkinWalker.' But no, I have never considered multi-universes, String and M-Brane
Theories with their 14 dimensions as having any basis in reality, but who knows for
certain? Dr. Vallee has published a book, 'Revelations', that seems to take this
'counter-intuitive' approach to UFOs.
EDIT: typed too many 't's' in 'intuitive'.
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I don't think its a stretch at all. That the FBI has documents that mention UFO's has no bearing on the validity of a UFO. It only means that the FBI received complaints/inquiries/reports/etc. and had to document them per standard operation procedure.
On the other hand, each of those areas I mentioned (and more) have people who have written or spoke about the topics in great detail. The details are rich and vivid. These stories are believed and the believers will likely agree that the story teller must be telling the truth because of the amount of detail and candor within the story.
On the other hand, each of those areas I mentioned (and more) have people who have written or spoke about the topics in great detail. The details are rich and vivid. These stories are believed and the believers will likely agree that the story teller must be telling the truth because of the amount of detail and candor within the story.
Because their own protocols require that they not simply toss information that comes to them in the trash, even when it is obviously from kooksville. Even kooks can commit crimes (ala David Koresh, Heaven's Gate, et al) and the info may one day be needed as evidence. In other words, information addressed to the FBI can be complete fiction, but that will not prevent them from filing it away.