Interesting FBI Document

B

btimsah

Registered Senior Member
After visiting this site: http://www.outoftheblue.tv/data/Hoover/Hoover.html

I downloaded this document from that site: http://www.outoftheblue.tv/data/*

I found page 22 the most interesting out of all of them. Below I will put a graphic of the page. Read it and tell me what you think.

page221qn.gif


The end is amazing when the FOIA requested page states; "The principle data concerning these craft is now at hand and must be offered, no matter how fantastic and unintelligeble it may seem to minds not previously instructed in thinking of this type". So, the list from 1 through 9 was based on this intense study. I've never seen this memo before, either. Has anyone else seen it before today?
 
Well, since nobody is responding to this then maybe me and A Canadian can argue about the Iraq War?

:D
 
I don't see any mark of authenticity on the document to verify it's from the FBI?

If it is, it makes some rather unprofessional statements, but then, I guess, in 1947 the FBI were a black bag organisation who regularly broke the law and trampled on the constitution to achieve their ends.

I'll follow the links and get back to you.
 
phlogistician said:
I don't see any mark of authenticity on the document to verify it's from the FBI?

If it is, it makes some rather unprofessional statements, but then, I guess, in 1947 the FBI were a black bag organisation who regularly broke the law and trampled on the constitution to achieve their ends.

I'll follow the links and get back to you.
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What do you mean by unprofessional statements? It seem's whoever wrote this had been involved with these craft's and studied them and came to these conclusions. If he had no evidence of alien bodies, then I don't know how he could claim the "visitors are like us, but taller" and such. It's an amazing document simply because It's says it like we've heard for years.

And you can get the .PDF file from the FBI'S own page here: http://foia.fbi.gov/foiaindex/ufo.htm It's the first 1 on the page.

I have not even looked at the other ones.
 
He could simply be a nut job.
If he DID have evidence why wouldn't he share it with them?
He was obviously concerned enough to contact the government (and others).
If, as he said, he was university educated and a former department head, he would understand the risk of not being taken seriously without at least SOME form of evidence to back up his outlandish claims.
 
one_raven said:
He could simply be a nut job.
If he DID have evidence why wouldn't he share it with them?
He was obviously concerned enough to contact the government (and others).
If, as he said, he was university educated and a former department head, he would understand the risk of not being taken seriously without at least SOME form of evidence to back up his outlandish claims.
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So you're saying he should have to prove it to you? A guy on an internet message board in the year 2005? That's a bit strange. He seem's to be merely reporting on what he found while studying the "flying saucer issue" when he states; "The principle data concerning these aircraft are now at hand". If he had not been studying it, or was just some kook then why the hell would it even have been made or circulated?

This memorandum is cut-off at the bottom. Furthermore, we know nothing about who actually wrote this. All I can gather is, someone inside our governement was working with crashed UFO'S and came to this conclusion.

I don't necesarily agree with it either. That's some far-out stuff he yacking about but I think it deserves some attention since apperently the FBI was reading it.
 
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btimsah said:
So you're saying he should have to prove it to you? A guy on an internet message board in the year 2005? That's a big strange.

This memorandum is cut-off at the bottom. Furthermore, we know nothing about who actually wrote this. All I can gather is, someone inside our governement with working knowlege of UFO'S.
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No, not the guy on the forum, the guy in the letter who was so vague about his credentials.
It doesn't seem to me at all like a gov't insider, rather a letter from a "concerned citizen".
Maybe I am reading it completely wrong, however.
If he did have specific knowledge of such things, why would he be so vague about how he came about this information and simply send a generic memorandum and NOT expect anything to be done about what would amount to quite a serious risk?
 
one_raven said:
No, not the guy on the forum, the guy in the letter who was so vague about his credentials.
It doesn't seem to me at all like a gov't insider, rather a letter from a "concerned citizen".
Maybe I am reading it completely wrong, however.
If he did have specific knowledge of such things, why would he be so vague about how he came about this information and simply send a generic memorandum and NOT expect anything to be done about what would amount to quite a serious risk?
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I suppose if he had done that, it would not have been a memorandum. Secondly, maybe he had allready done one? In these memo's, they don't give a 50 page report on one case. They just go over the highlights and give a quick synopsis.
 
In these memo's, they don't give a 50 page report on one case. They just go over the highlights and give a quick synopsis.
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I can't really say, because I have never been to a UFO metting at FBI headquarters, but the vagueness and the outrageous claims just doesn't smell right to me.
He speaks as if he had spoken with alien dignitaries, but no one but him was aware of this fact.
I find it hard to believe that an FBI appointed alien representative would be issuing memos like this one.
 
This memorandum is surely typical of those written by 'kooks' and sent to government bodies. At this time the FBI were obliged to consider it. We see their response on the lower left hand side - "No Action", with a signature.
Stop clutching straws and give us some meat.
 
btimsah said:
What do you mean by unprofessional statements?
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'etheric planet'

'vibratory rate'

'esoteric matters'

pure bunk phrases, and hence unprofessional.

It seem's whoever wrote this had been involved with these craft's and studied them and came to these conclusions.
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Sounds more like the output from some who 'channels' aliens, rather than physically studies them.
 
btimsah said:
Well, since nobody is responding to this then maybe me and A Canadian can argue about the Iraq War?

:D
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It would seem that this report was sent to the FBI. It is interesting and adds fuel to the UFO controversy. However it is inconclusive and the FBI has chosen to display information like this in their disinformation campaign.
 
Lokas and Talas

Just a note on point 8 from the memo:

See Wisdom Traditions for a discussion of Lokas and Talas.

From the memo:

8. The region from which they come is NOT the "astral plane", but corresponds to the Lokas or Talas. Students of esoteric matters will understand these terms.
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From Wisdom Traditions:

Taking the cosmic picture first, we have been accustomed to indicate the planes of consciousness by a series of parallel lines one above another, and they are often shown thus:


Three
Unmanifested
Planes
Archetypal Plane
Intellectual Plane
Astral Plane
Physical Plane​

If we have profited by what has gone before, we may at once surmise that each of these planes of consciousness is dual in nature; and we shall be correct.* Let us then proceed directly to a study of them, each one a bipolarity with its energic of consciousness side as well as its matter side.* In this manner the subject is best studied under the heading of the Lokas and Talas, the former being the energy or spirit aspects, and the latter the material aspects of the planes.* But there is something more.* The unnumbered hosts of entities pursuing their evolutionary journeys through these planes of life follow a natural sequence: they start any one of their great cycles of development at the highest point and move downward, so to speak, through the planes of consciousness to the lowest of them, and then return upwards.* These two phases of the journey are known respectively as the “Downward Arc” and the “Upward Arc.”* In passing through the planes on the Downward Arc, they do so through the Tala aspects, and on the return journey along the Upward Arc they do so through the Loka aspects.* Therefore, while it has been customary to name the light or consciousness side of any hierarchy first, as we did when enumerating the Tattvas and the Bhûtas, in this instance, because the descent is made through the Talas before the re-ascent through the Lokas, we shall enumerate them in that order, taking the Talas first and starting with the highest: ....

Wisdom Traditions
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Anyway ... thanks for pointing these out. I admit it's much more interesting than imagining shapes in rocks.

Of less importance to the topic, but of some curiosity, note the discussion of Sarbacher & Smith at OutoftheBlue; the name "Doctor Vannover Bush" appears in point C of the document excerpt. On a whim, I ran the name through Google.

The beginnings of hypertext, in the sense we generally think of, can be traced to an article by Vanover Bush in 1945. The article proposed a machine Bush called a Memex. The Memex was to be a machine for displaying and organizing information in a truly non-linear form. It was to be both a library and a desk; there would be screens to display microfilm versions of the books and articles stored in the machine. Bush believed that the traditional method of information retrieval was outdated in the newly modern post-WWII world. Bush noted that systems of categorization were always problematic, and frequently counterintuitive. The Memex was to be the solution; think of your PC with a true digital library.

Univ. of Idaho
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Ironically, it appears that this memo is in contradiction with Norval & Gale's speculation about aliens:
from the Memo said:
2. Their mission is peaceful. The visitors contemplate settling on this plane.
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But I agree with some of the comments already posted. It obvious that this memo was not generated by official FBI personnel, but rather an external source. This is evidenced by the vernacular and style of the memo. Memorandums generated within the U.S. government followed a very strict set of style attributes from WWII until very recently (1990's). Even today, many of these attributes are still present.

Most notably are the "To:" "From:" and "Subject:" fields as is the placement and style of the "Date:" field. The first three items are generally double or triple spaced and justified to the left, while the latter (the date) is usually on the same line as the "To:" field, but justified right. The format of the date can vary from "Month day, year" to "day mo. yr.", the latter being used more prevalent in DoD, the former in domestic agencies.

The memo above exhibits neither of these attributes, moreover, it's style utilized a centered justification for headings and omitted the "To:", "From:", and "Subject:" fields, all very taboo to the government employee This would indicate that either it wasn't written by a government employee or that the employee was very inexperienced or very low in the ranks were memoranda aren't circulated (i.e. janitorial services, food service).

Even in those documents in which the government utilizes a center justification for heading information, it nearly always follows the strict style of Major Agency, sub-agency, geographic location, date, and, after several skipped lines, a concise subject. Example:

UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

March 26, 1965



STUDENT MARCH ON
WASHINGTON,
APRIL 17, 1965​

[/end example]

The most likely explanation for this memo is that it was sent to the FBI by a concerned, if perhaps deluded, citizen at which point it was reviewed and filed per protocol/policy and later made available as part of the FOIA.
 
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btimsah said:
Well, since nobody is responding to this then maybe me and A Canadian can argue about the Iraq War?

:D
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BTW how did you learn about the Out of the Blue web site? Also the Round Robin was a radio show it seems from the 1940's era. Also is it not strange that this letter is dated the same day as the crash in Roswell?
 
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SkinWalker said:
Wasn't it on the Science Fiction Channel, aka "SciFi?"
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Yes it did air on Sci Fi however I just wanted to know if he found the site from a link posted on the UFO crash site thread. BTW I did visit the site on January 3rd. HWY 70 was under construction obstructing the entrance to the site I was short of time so I could not access. I will try again as soon as I am able. I hope to find somthing but I will not be suprised if it is nothing.
 
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