intelligent Design

[river-wind]

Originally posted by Eflex tha Vybe Scientist
what produced these initial forces?

strong
weak
gravitational
electromagnetic

A good question, one which I do not have enough evidence to answer. I'd say it's 50-50 between natural (non-ineligent) and intelligent design. If time is is truely par tof the universe too, then there doesn't need to be a "before" the universe, so a creator is not required (despite how difficult that idea actually is to understand. I personally can't conceptualise it, but it logically seems OK.)
However, given how difficult it is to understand, the easier method would be "Before the universe, there was a thing which designed it". Which, while prompting more questions, is easier to visuallize.

 

[ElectricFetus]

Those forces simply exist: its like asking why photons exist or why matter exist. The four primary forces exist, there is no anwser why.

As for biochemistry being amazing its not really. Think of it as the same process as the formation of ice crystals only many fold more complicated.

 

[river-wind]

Originally posted by WellCookedFetus
Those forces simply exist: its like asking why photons exist or why matter exist. The four primary forces exist, there is no anwser why.

But that is the exact question he is asking, 'Why do these things exsist'. For that question, I don't have an answer, only speculation about strings and inflatrons, or possibly a variable speed of light theory. However, I don't really have a solid answer.

Do you?

 

[ElectricFetus]

No, I don't think anyone has a answer beyond speculation, that not to say “Well god did it” that just stupid.

 

[Eflex tha Vybe Scientist]

Originally posted by WellCookedFetus
No, I don't think anyone has a answer beyond speculation, that not to say “Well god did it” that just stupid.

Humans have blamed 'God' for all things we dont understand.
Whether it was the Sun setting or the tides or a plague or a flood.

Therefore, it is understandable for us to resist the whole "God did it" mantra to explain away the unknown. Its a cop out.

But after studying astronomy chemistry biochemistry cosmology and now basic quantum machanics and superstring theory, it seems to me that the known universe is a very spectacular place, governed by mechanics we are just beginning to fathom.

In my opinion, this points to a 'watchmaker' of some sorts. Kind of a 'hands-off' creator that crafts the watch and then lets it run its course.

 

[ElectricFetus]

but then why would there need to be a sentient creator?

 

[river-wind]

I feel that there doesn't need to be. There is alot of stuff in the universe that is pretty cool, and if God shows up tomorrow, I'll say, "Well *that* explains alot!"

However, I don't see a creator as needed for creation, too many things are explainable back to basic physics if traced hard enough far enough to require a sentient creator.


Eflex tha Vybe Scientist, what is your view?

 

[Eflex tha Vybe Scientist]

Originally posted by WellCookedFetus
but then why would there need to be a sentient creator?

because my circular logic says so!!!

but seriously, as stated earlier, it is possible that the multiverse has no beginning and no end. It might just be a cycle of big bangs and big crunches.

(on a side note, the diagram of that style multiverse looks like linear DNA.)

and I will concede that the evidence I cited is not proof positive of some grand geometer crafting galaxies out of nothing.

But I think that there is so much we dont know about the universe, our galaxy, our solar system, our planet, our bodies that we cannot discount the possibility of a sentient creator.

Hell, we could all be holograms as far as we know!
http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000AF072-4891-1F0A-97AE80A84189EEDF&catID=2

Wasnt a new photoreceptor found in the human eyes recently?
http://www.brown.edu/Administration/News_Bureau/2001-02/01-080.html

and we spent the last 150 years thinking we knew it all about how the eye processes light energy.

 

[river-wind]

cool link! I love science, it can be very flexable and accomidating, when individual pride doesn't get in the way.

 

[ElectricFetus]

You should get a subscription to SA river-wind.

 

[Eflex tha Vybe Scientist]

Originally posted by river-wind
cool link! I love science, it can be very flexable and accomidating, when individual pride doesn't get in the way.

exactly.
I feel very stongly about keeping my mind open to infinite possibilities.

and one of those possibilities is that I am completely bonkers.
(one that I am leaning towards on a daily basis)

and I still feel in awe when I begin to think about the number of chemical processes that are simultaneously taking place in my body as we speak.

 

[Eflex tha Vybe Scientist]

Originally posted by WellCookedFetus
You should get a subscription to SA river-wind.

[yoda voice] easily impressed you are not[/yoda voice]

how about this one?

http://www.zamandayolculuk.com/cetinbal/BUILDTIMETRAVEL.HTM

 

[ElectricFetus]

not really, I have been paying out of my nose for SA for the last 4 years, even though I can read through it for free at the universities library, Science and Nature cost MORE and I stick with reading them at the library.

 

[Eflex tha Vybe Scientist]

Originally posted by WellCookedFetus
not really, I have been paying out of my nose for SA for the last 4 years, even though I can read through it for free at the universities library, Science and Nature cost MORE and I stick with reading them at the library.

I wish I had the time to read my all sciams. Im about a month behind.