Insect Mentality

takandjive said:
I'll concede they probably don't feel it like we or any of the complex beasties do, but they react to the stimuli. It's indicative they're not thrilled shitless.
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They can't be thrilled either, though.

Tearing things apart just isn't nice.
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This is such a weird statement. By utilitarian models of ethics, killing insects isn't even a moral question, since they don't have utility, so tearing things apart ISN'T nice, but it's not not nice, either. But as an emotivist, I would have to agree with you- if killing bugs makes you feel bad, then it's probably wrong. I think bugs are really cool, and don't like smashing them because it's like stepping on God's robots.
 
Roman said:
With over 500 species in 31 subgenera, I doubt that holds true for everything that is colloquially called a carpenter bee.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpenter_bee
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Carpenter bees are solitary. Perhaps there might be one or two genera that aren't as much though, I don't know.
But to assume that they live in colonies is erroneous.

Roman said:
Insects react to stimuli, but there is no evidence for insects possessing any of the neurological structures capable of experiencing pain like we do. Do you think your Roomba feels pain?
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What is pain other than damage detection ?
 
Roman said:
Actually, it is. Reaction to a negative stimulus != experience of pain. First, you have to be able to have experiences. Second, you need to have a reason to feel pain, ie, have an overriding stimuli. Higher vertebrates feel pain because they have a lot of complex information to contend with, and there needs to be a gtfo switch.

Insects, on the other hand, do not have the capacity to have experiences, nor is there much evidence that they are doing any of the higher order stuff that us vertebrates do.
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How do you know that insects do not have experiences ? That doesn't seem right..
Perhaps you are arguing that bees don't perceive pain consciously, but that doesn't mean that bees feel no pain.

Roman said:
You mean they react to differing stimuli. No one is debating this. But whether they can actually perceive their perception? No evidence, whatsoever.
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What do you mean by 'perceive perception' ?
 
Enmos said:
How do you know that insects do not have experiences ? That doesn't seem right..
Perhaps you are arguing that bees don't perceive pain consciously, but that doesn't mean that bees feel no pain....
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well, for me, until it proven that they have experiences (???) and feel pain, I'm gonna say they don't. If its proven, I'll believe it.
 
One time a bunch of bees came after my children who were playing in the back yard. The damned bees followed them right into the house! So we had this enraged swarm of bees flying around inside the house! So I sent the wife and kids to the basement and turned out all the lights except for the kitchen light. I had no bug spray, so as the bees began swarming below the light, I sprayed them with hair spray which froze up their wings and then stepped on them. I killed the entire swarm that way without getting stung once! (thank God, because I'm allergic as hell.
 
They may or may not have emotions, I don't really care to work with insects if I don't have to. However I know that butterflies have temperments/personalities, without having brains. So I don't think it's to farfetched if it were discovered that insects have emotions like most animals.
 
Orleander said:
well, for me, until it proven that they have experiences (???) and feel pain, I'm gonna say they don't. If its proven, I'll believe it.
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How can anything that interacts with its environment not have experiences? If an insect looses it's leg doing something, how would that not be an experience? Even if you don'ty remember something happening you still experienced it, your leg is still missing.
 
a basic 'law of nature' that a species is capable of recognizing their own AND when something is not right with it. reactions to an example like this vary by species and wouldnt surprise me that their small size and vulnerability is not a factor.
 
Orleander said:
I know! I'm not that brutal.
I would have poked holes in the lid of a jar and threw his buzzing butt in there. Of course, I'm still gonna kill them, but no need for torture first.
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So would I.

I think I'll go hack the OP's limbs off, see how he feels about it.
 
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