Indonesian Drug War

[spidergoat]

Moral of the story:
Never, ever, vacation in Indonesia. Or, in any predominately muslim country.

Ok, I'm sure it's nice. Actually, I hear that away from the police, out in the country, it is easy to get anything you want, and no one cares so much what you do. After all, they grow some of the best stuff there. Maybe I'm thinking of Thailand, though.

 

[Tiassa]

Update: Death Penalty for Drug Trafficking

I haven't found the bill text yet, but I do think I'm on the right track. I remember the bill because I was looking at some random website years ago that picked a bone with Gingrich for sponsoring a certain bill, the one I'm looking for. I haven't found the bill, but I did find an interesting article from October, 1995:

U.S. House of Representatives Speaker Newt Gingrich has proposed increased death penalty provisions for drug dealers as a way to curb the flow of drugs into the U.S. ("Gingrich on Drug Dealers," New York Times, July*15, 1995, p.*A9; Reuters News Service, July*14, 1995; "Gingrich Urges Death Penalty for Illegal Drug Smugglers," Washington Post, August*27, 1995, p.*A16).

In a speech before a Republican National Committee meeting in July, Gingrich said that increasing the number of offenses punishable by the death penalty would be a way to stop illegal drug smuggling. "You import commercial quantities of drugs in the United States for the purpose of destroying our children, we will kill you," he said.

He also called for a national referendum on the question of drug legalization. Later, he told reporters that 80*percent of the nation would reject legalization as a drug policy option.

"I say put it on the ballot and say either legalize them or get rid of them," he said of drug dealers. "But quit playing the game that enriches the evil, strengthens the violence, addicts our children, and makes us look pathetic and helpless."

NDSN.org

As much as I loathe the apparent severity of Indonesia's war on drugs, we in the U.S. aren't far from it. Were it not for those pesky, murderous religious extremists who knocked down our towers and killed 2,800 people, we might have gone that direction already. (The politicians really are that blind about drugs in the U.S.; despite growing sympathy for recreational drug use, the political line has remained a hard one.)

 

[Jolly Rodger]

4 kgs does make quite a difference in any piece of luggage.
...

I am not saying she is innocent, although unless you eleven years old, 4kg would Not make that much difference in your luggage.

I think you need to get out more and do something besides sit in front of your computer if you are of such poor physical condition!

 

[Tiassa]

Hang on, though, Jolly. Perhaps 4.1 kg doesn't seem that much, but since that translates to 9.02 lbs, I thought I should at least mention that at every bowling alley are 8 lb (3.63 kg) balls, and there are apparently 9 lb (4.08 kg) balls on the market as well.

Regardless of what shape one is in, failing to notice the weight of a bowling ball missing from or added to a piece of luggage .... A board bag? Yeah, that would screw up the center of mass enough to make it feel like a foreign tool in your hands.

A conspiracy? (That's a slender possibility to explain the comparative weights of the bag.) Maybe, but it doesn't really matter. Death for dope? That's just insidious.

 

[Jolly Rodger]

I understand having an empty bag and then putting 4kg in it, you would notice the difference, although board bag are usually bidder than just the board I am sure she would have had other stuff packed in there besides her board and in saying that, it would be difficult after a 5 hour plane trip to tell the difference between 13kg and 17kg, wouldn't you agree

 

[Bells]

I am not saying she is innocent, although unless you eleven years old, 4kg would Not make that much difference in your luggage.

Heh... don't travel much do you? 4.1 kgs does make a huge difference. Ever travelled with a boogie board? They are quite light and their bags are made specifically for them. This was not hand luggage. She checked it in at Brisbane Airport. The weight upon checking in at Brisbane Airport is the same as the weight when she arrived in Denpesar Airport. Now unless she'd had other clothing or things in her bag that would weigh 4.1 kgs and that was removed and replaced with the pot, then that would raise a few eyebrows. But as Corby has stated and testified, nothing was missing from her bag and the drugs were placed in her bag after she'd checked it in. Jolly, 4.1 kgs does make a huge difference when you're lifting a bag that should in fact be very light. In fact, pack any piece of luggage to it's maximum capacity and then add any item or bag of sand weighing 4.1 kgs and believe me, you'll see how much of a difference it makes to your luggage.

I think you need to get out more and do something besides sit in front of your computer if you are of such poor physical condition!

I think it's you who needs to get out more and actually lift some things to see how heavy or light some things actually are. I own several boogie boards and a few bags in which I sometimes used to carry them in to the beach. Believe me, they are light and if someone added 4.1 kgs to it, I'd notice. Ask anyone who's ever even picked up a boogie board if they would notice if someone added 4.1 kgs to it, believe me Jolly, they'd say yes.

I understand having an empty bag and then putting 4kg in it, you would notice the difference, although board bag are usually bidder than just the board I am sure she would have had other stuff packed in there besides her board and in saying that, it would be difficult after a 5 hour plane trip to tell the difference between 13kg and 17kg, wouldn't you agree

A 13 kg board? This is a boogie board we're talking about right? Have you ever even picked one up? You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Tiassa]

If the weight was evenly-distributed. In all my days, there are two quantity experiences that stand out. One I can't estimate, because there were other drugs present, but it looked kind of like that scene in The Crow when all the villains are gathered together and playing with their guns: four dealers, and mountains of dope and pills and hallucinogenic treats. The other, more relevant, is the first time I ever held a one-pound brick of marijuana. But this? I mean, nine pounds of dope is a lot.

8 (units) x 16 (ounces) x 9 (pounds) = 1152 (units total)

1152 x 40 (US$) = $46,080.00
1152 x 45 (US$) = $51,840.00​

Calculation Notes: Figures employ American method of packaging marijuana in quantities of 1/8 oz. (approx. 3.5 g) for street-level distribution, also known as "eighth bags". Market prices in Seattle run at $40 or $45 per, unless it's exotic, in which case one can expect prices ranging from $50 - 100 per eighth.

Usage Estimate: Before the birth of my daughter, I once estimated my annual consumption at between two and three eighths per week, which rounded about $5,000 per year on dope. By that figure, what this suspect was caught with equals over ten years of personal consumption on my part.

There's an old joke from Doonesbury about the gods giving a young man named Douglas his body weight in fine, uncut Turkish hashish, and in my life it has carried over into marijuana itself. In my circles it's not unusual to hear, "What are you doing tomorrow?" Oh, I've been working mandatory overtime for six weeks, so I'm going to stay home and smoke my body weight in dope. I weigh all of 155 lbs (about 70 kg). Future medicine may empower me to reach the goal of smoking my body weight, but if I live eighty years total, I'll probably have spent fifty of it stoned, maybe sixty. That's not enough time.​

​

That's how much dope it is. If it's loose enough to distribute evenly through the bag, or reasonably so, that's the only other thing in the bag. If it's packed into bricks for travel, it's not so much the difference between 13 and 17 kg, but rather the difference in the center of gravity. Especially when you're tired, and relying more on familiarity, the difference should be fairly plain.

Nine pounds is a freakin' load of dope.

(And I should limit my prior post to American bowling alleys; I've never bowled in Canada. Or Australia. Or Indonesia. Or Burma ... oh, yeah.)

 

[Bells]

If it's loose enough to distribute evenly through the bag, or reasonably so, that's the only other thing in the bag. If it's packed into bricks for travel, it's not so much the difference between 13 and 17 kg, but rather the difference in the center of gravity. Especially when you're tired, and relying more on familiarity, the difference should be fairly plain.

That's the thing. It wasn't loose in the bag. It was instead packed quite tightly into a large plastic zip lock type of bag, ensuring that it was all packed together. Having travelled quite a bit, even after 20 hours, I still notice the weight of my bag and I'd sure as hell notice if 4 kgs had been added to it. Especially in light of a boogie board bag. One goes to pick up that bag with the knowledge that it is very light. You'd notice 4 kgs extra in the bag and as you've correctly pointed out, the weight distribution of the bag would be so askew that it would be even more noticable.

 

[Jolly Rodger]

Bell I have been on more planes than you have had hot meals my friend!
My whole point was if she had other things in her bag besides the board it could way 13kg, when ever I fly I have to pay excess because my bags weigh to much, and I am always mystified due to the fact that may bag can sometimes be 10kg over or three kg over, it always feels the same to me.
I think you should get off your high horse buddy because it is you that can not know what you are talking about.
Because I am sure if you had three bags all of different weight and I got you to carry them 50meters and then 5 hours later got you to pick up the same bags and one of them was 4 kg heavier you wouldn't be able to tell which one it was or if at all there was any difference. Given that you were not told before there would be a quiz on the weight of the bags when you completed the exercise

 

[Jolly Rodger]

May be it is these boogie board bags that I lack knowledge in.

 

[Tiassa]

At 20 hours I can tell where my keys are by the weight of my jacket pockets. I have six keys on a simple keyring with a small steel plate that serves as a screwdriver and wrench mounted in leather. In other words, they're not heavy at all.

 

[Jolly Rodger]

Although if you had 3 jackets or even four jackets in your hand and the keys had been added to one pocket of one jacket I am sure this task would become increasingly difficult!

 

[Tiassa]

Yes, but somewhere in between the weight of my keys and nine pounds ... that's a lot of jackets.

Hang on, I'll go weigh my freakin' keys.

:m:

 

[Jolly Rodger]

Yeah, all I am trying to say is, the amount of times I have been rushing through and airport, with 3 bags or more I don’t think I would be able to tell the difference in weight in one of my bags if 4kg had been added to it.
And also the amount of distance between the bag carousel and the quarantine is usually minimal

 

[Tiassa]

(Title me, baby! - Or, "Smokeadelica in Lieu of a Real Title")

Okay, I can't find the scale, I admit. I'd say I forgot where it was, because that would be a cute joke, but in addition to not being true, it's dangerous inasmuch as those statements always come back to haunt me in some discussion or another. In reality, as I don't work for money right now, I'm just nowhere near the business end, and despite having at least nine regular places for it, I just can't seem to find it. Hmmm.

But I digress. I'm not even sure what's significant about our part of the argument. I don't mean any sense of disrespect, but I don't think it should be illegal to transport nine pounds of marijuana. Whether she's guilty or not, I admit, doesn't matter much to me.

In the age of terror, are dogs checking for drugs on Australia's outbound flights, or just explosives and such?

I mean, working in her favor (at least I think) are a few notions:

• Who is stupid enough to not know the drug laws in the country they're transporting to?
• Why would an Australian move nine pounds to Indonesia, when market prices favor greater affluence, such as might be found in Australia by comparison?
• How did nine pounds of marijuana get onto an international flight in the first place?​

These are among the many questions that do come up. The latest press I can find is at least encouraging:

Wockner, Cindy. "Surprise witness gives Corby hope". The Advertiser. March 25, 2005. See http://www.theadvertiser.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,12659278%5E911,00.html

Wockner, Cindy. "Stay strong, inmate tells tearful Corby." The Herald Sun. March 28, 2005. See http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,12685531%5E662,00.html​

 

[Bells]

Bell I have been on more planes than you have had hot meals my friend!
My whole point was if she had other things in her bag besides the board it could way 13kg, when ever I fly I have to pay excess because my bags weigh to much, and I am always mystified due to the fact that may bag can sometimes be 10kg over or three kg over, it always feels the same to me.
I think you should get off your high horse buddy because it is you that can not know what you are talking about.
Because I am sure if you had three bags all of different weight and I got you to carry them 50meters and then 5 hours later got you to pick up the same bags and one of them was 4 kg heavier you wouldn't be able to tell which one it was or if at all there was any difference. Given that you were not told before there would be a quiz on the weight of the bags when you completed the exercise

Jolly, if you have ever travelled with a boogie board, you'd know that would be the one piece of luggage that would be light. No matter if you have 10 other pieces of checked in luggage, that boogie board bag would be light because those boards are light. One does not usually cram heavy items in those bags alongside the board because it can damage the board itself. And had you seen video images of what they'd pulled out of that bag, you'd know that it was not the type of bag that one could stuff with other items except things that one normally would in those bags. In fact, from what I've seen so far, the bag appeared to only have the board in it. And the introduction of the bag of drugs into that bag would have been noticable to any individual, even one off a plane after 5 hours to someone who'd been flying for 25 hours. While you may not be aware of how much you carry and can't tell the difference, carry a boogie board in its bag anywhere and you'd know it's weight because they are so damned light. So maybe YOU should actually pick up one of those boards and see for yourself. If you cant tell if the weight of an item has doubled, then that's something you need to deal with for yourself.

The woman was carrying 4.1 kg of pot, tightly packed in a plastic zip lock bag, placed inside her boogie board bag. Whether it was placed there after it was checked in is dubious, because the weight of the bag did not appear to have been changed from when she'd checked it in to when she picked it up off the carousel in Denpasar airport. The records don't show that more weight had been added to the that piece of luggage. So either someone packed it into the bag when she wasn't looking or she's managed to keep the braying down to a minimum.

In the age of terror, are dogs checking for drugs on Australia's outbound flights, or just explosives and such?

From what I know, it's on inbound flights that dogs check for drugs. The bags are usually checked for any item that could constitute as being a threat to the flight prior to take off. Bags are usually checked when entering a country. Some bags may be checked on outbound flights if there is something suspect and some bags may be checked at random. I know that mail is checked inbound and outbound, but it appears that luggage on planes do not suffer the same level of scrutiny in regards to drug checks. Apparently an inquiry is being launched to investigate how someone's luggage could be tampered with in such a manner and also investigating the accusations that a drug trafficking ring exists in Austalia's domestic airports. I guess the inquiry will come up with one recommendation for all travellers... have a lock on all your luggage. If anything can come out of this whole thing, it should be this:

But he declined to name the airport employee he believed planted the 4.1kg of marijuana in the unlocked case because of fears of reprisal or murder.
Link

Make sure all your pieces of luggage are always locked upon check-in. It seems Corby forgot about that important little detail when she packed her things for her holiday. After all, who in the hell travels anywhere now days without a lock on the luggage their checking in? Especially when going to somewhere like Bali? Talk about extreme lack of common sense.

Who is stupid enough to not know the drug laws in the country they're transporting to?

You'd be surprised. Look into any Asian jail, you'd find quite a few Westerners in their legal system for bringing drugs into the country. Many Westerners seem to think that foreigners and their security are dumb.

Why would an Australian move nine pounds to Indonesia, when market prices favor greater affluence, such as might be found in Australia by comparison?

Idiocy knows no bounds. According to the convicted felon who's flown to Bali in her defence, it was a mistake and she was the victim of a domestic drug trafficking ring:

"Schapelle Corby is a victim of domestic drug trafficking by what I regard as petty criminals and cowards."
Link

How did nine pounds of marijuana get onto an international flight in the first place?

The same as it and more gets on international flights all the time. They slip by. People carry drugs on international flights on a daily basis.

As to the witness who has given her defence hope? Well it's all hearsay evidence. The witness has flown to Bali to give evidence that he heard two prisoner's talking about the drugs that were placed in her bag and he'd heard them talk about the owner of the drugs. I guess the country will know more tonight if they tune into one particular current affairs show that has paid the supposedly true owner of the drugs $15,000 to tell the truth about the pot. Hell for that much money, what known criminal wouldn't tell.

The Channel 9 program A Current Affair has reportedly paid Melbourne man Ron Vigenser - who has been named in a Bali court as being linked to a drug consignment allegedly planted on Ms Corby - $15,000 for an interview.

The program signed the contract with Vigenser, who estimates he has about 150 convictions, the Herald Sun reported.
Link

Nice to know someone will be laughing all the way to the bank.

This whole saga is a complete fiasco. Here we have a woman, found with 4.1 kgs of drugs in her luggage saying 'it's not mine'... like anyone would admit it was theirs in such a situation?... and her best line of defence is a criminal on remand for crimes such as rape and assualt, who's flown there from a Victorian jail to give evidence that he heard 2 other prisoners discussing the true owner of the drugs in jail? I find that mind boggling. The criminal's plea that it's not hers and she's not a drug user does nothing for her case, because how would he know whether she was a user or not? He's a criminal in Victoria and she's a Gold Coast beauty school student and she's claiming she doesn't do drugs. The ironic thing about his statements is this:

But Victorian prisoner John Patrick Ford refused to reveal who put drugs in her luggage, citing fears for her life as well as for his own.
Link

The woman's on death row, her life is in danger. As for his own life, well he should be scared for blabbing in the first place. But I guess in a way it has all turned out great for the supposed true drug owner, seeing that he's suddenly $15,000 richer for selling his story to the media. As I said before... fiasco.

 

[Dr Lou Natic]

The body board was replaced with the big block of weed, which was of a similar size and weight.
Decent body boards weigh 3 or 4 kgs.
She voluntarily opened the bag herself in front of an officer and then crapped herself and tried to close it.
People are starting to come forward saying they opened their luggage in an indonesian motel to find a huge amount of drugs. It's a very common thing.
There's basically no doubt over whether or not she's guilty, everyone knows she's innocent, she doesn't fit the profile at all. It's really really obvious.
It's just a matter of proving it.
And it's hard because indonesia WANTS her to die via firing squad, they get off on this sort of thing along with dieing rooms for unwanted children, bear bile farms and cooking and eating animals alive. It's also the best place to find good "human baby meat" and so on.
Their culture revolves around bizarre breaches of justice and cruelty.
Australia is basically sacrificing what they know to be an innocent girl to appease the perverse desires of their sadistic neighbours who they want to be friends with because they can clearly foresee the global mongol victory over caucasoids that is on the inevitable horizon and they want to be well treated slaves.
They ofcourse are neglecting to take into consideration that mongols don't believe in slaves and have no respect for anyone who rolls over without a fight, whether they were kind or not. They are probably laughing over that billion dollar tsunami donation right now while calling us their language's equivalent to "pussies".
"History sighs, repeats itself"(the onion), but is ignored.
I personally shoot people of oriental descent upon seeing them, but I fear that isn't enough.

 

[Bells]

The body board was replaced with the big block of weed, which was of a similar size and weight.
Decent body boards weigh 3 or 4 kgs.
She voluntarily opened the bag herself in front of an officer and then crapped herself and tried to close it.
People are starting to come forward saying they opened their luggage in an indonesian motel to find a huge amount of drugs. It's a very common thing.

From what I know of this case, the weed was in the bag along with the board. As for similar size and weight... ok lets go with that. But the bag of weed was not packed down that tightly. It wasn't the same shape as the board. As for her voluntarily opening the bag in front of an officer, that's the way it is in Indonesia and in many places. They ask you to identify if it is your piece of luggage and then ask you to open it in front of them. To refuse to do so is taken as an admission of guilt in many instances, so most people just obey on the spot. As for that story last night, one person came forward and said that when he'd travelled to Bali, he opened his luggage and found a bag of drugs in his suitcase. One person does not constitute "people" and hardly constitutes as being something common. If that were the case, Corby would not be in court as the complaints would have warranted an investigation both here and in Indonesia.

There's basically no doubt over whether or not she's guilty, everyone knows she's innocent, she doesn't fit the profile at all. It's really really obvious.
It's just a matter of proving it.

There is obviously "doubt" as to her innocence, otherwise she would not be in the position she's in right now. Personally I think she's guilty. Everyone I know thinks she's guilty. There is no profile for her to fit. Just because she looks clean cut and is a beauty school student does not make her not fit the profile. I've known drug users and traffickers who would never fit that particular profile. It's never obvious Lou and there is no real profile. If there were one, most drug traffickers would be in jail right now because they fit the profile and were investigated. When you have 70 year old grandmothers being arrested for drug trafficking, that should tell you that there is no profile that one can rely on:

In some cases, drug dealers do not fit the stereotype. In Desert Hot Springs, located in northwestern Imperial County, police arrested a 70-year-old woman for distribution of marijuana and crack cocaine within 1,000 feet of a school. Police seized about $1,000 worth of crack cocaine and $40 worth of marijuana.
Link

And it's hard because indonesia WANTS her to die via firing squad, they get off on this sort of thing along with dieing rooms for unwanted children, bear bile farms and cooking and eating animals alive. It's also the best place to find good "human baby meat" and so on.

You're confusing Indonesia with China and North Korea. Maybe a lesson in geography won't go astray. As for eating animals alive.. hmmm.. I must admit I've never seen that practice when I've visited Bali in the past. The meat I ate there was always cooked. I was never sure it was meat that I had ordered from the menu... but it was always cooked as ordered...

Their culture revolves around bizarre breaches of justice and cruelty.

HEH! So's the West in this current age of 'War Against Terror'.

Australia is basically sacrificing what they know to be an innocent girl to appease the perverse desires of their sadistic neighbours who they want to be friends with because they can clearly foresee the global mongol victory over caucasoids that is on the inevitable horizon and they want to be well treated slaves.

They don't know she's innocent. There's no proof that she is innocent. But whether she's innocent or not I do agree that the Government should have done more to help her, instead of just sending embassy officials to visit her in jail to make sure she wasn't being mistreated.

I personally shoot people of oriental descent upon seeing them, but I fear that isn't enough.

You go any where near my Asian grocer or the kindly Chinese man who runs the take out down the street that is currently cooking just about the only thing I can keep down... I shall track you down and strip all your skin off before sitting you on the last nest of fire ants in the State.

 

[Chairman_meow]

First off I have to say I agree with Jolly.

Second how funny all you retards accusing Schappelle of being so dumb for bringing so many drugs into the country. Two points spring to mind.
1) the fact that there is an australian prisoner on his way to Bali to give evidence that he put the drugs in her bag, and that Schappelle was the victim of an inter-state drug running scheme.
2) and this is the most important point.

WHO THE FUCK?......NO REALLY WHO THE FUCK? in their right mind would smuggle $15,000 worth of drugs into a country where they will be worth less than $1000.
And if she was planning on smoking it all? that's alot of money to spend on getting stoned.

Case closed.

 

[Jolly Rodger]

1 gram = aud20
4kg= 4000grams
4000 x AUD20
=80 000, now that is a shit load of pot