Furthermore, my agreement or otherwise is surely irrelevant to the issue of whether or not your examples beg the question.
I never said it was relative, only that it is your prerogative.
Jan.
Furthermore, my agreement or otherwise is surely irrelevant to the issue of whether or not your examples beg the question.
Long before I was an atheist, I was a sincere seeker of god, just like you, and there was no presence of god. This is actually a common feeling among theists, even famous ones like Saint Theresa.What evidence is that?
Jan.
God exists, but is not recognized by 'nonbelievers' (atheists) until methodologies are developed to detect and evidentially demonstrate God.
Wrong . . . .Incorrect
A statement cannot be made that something, ANYTHING, exist
but is not recognised
until we find a method to detect it
and provide evidence
IT, whatever IT is, DOES NOT EXIST
PERIOD
Anybody in this thread know of any Science working to develop a god detector?
Jan said god's effects on the world are objective, so one should be able to distinguish from a universe that contains a god and one that doesn't, otherwise the concept is meaningless. But even if the only sign of god is through a personal relationship, it should be possible to show the evidence of any information communicated that would have been otherwise impossible to know or guess.Anybody in this thread know of any Science working to develop a god detector?
Long before I was an atheist, I was a sincere seeker of god, just like you, and there was no presence of god. This is actually a common feeling among theists, even famous ones like Saint Theresa.
Jan said god's effects on the world are objective,
Whatever it is - is simply in someone's imagination.until we find a method to detect it
and provide evidence
Awesome.Wrong . . . .
Jan said god's effects on the world are objective,
so one should be able to distinguish from a universe that contains a god and one that doesn't, otherwise the concept is meaningless
But even if the only sign of god is through a personal relationship, it should be possible to show the evidence of any information communicated that would have been otherwise impossible to know or guess
Then Jan is wrong.Jan said god's effects on the world are objective
Absolutely. And given the stunning lack of such information - over millennia - that pretty much rules out "god" and the claims of "personal relationships" with him/ her/ it.But even if the only sign of god is through a personal relationship, it should be possible to show the evidence of any information communicated that would have been otherwise impossible to know or guess.
So all you have are arguments that beg the question?Wherever you accused me of begging the question.
God is defined as that which grants the ability to understand.
Implicit within God being the cause of all, is it not?Sorry, where did I state this?
Implicit within God being the cause of all, is it not?
so one should be able to distinguish from a universe that contains a god and one that doesn't
Post 1609 - troll.Sorry, where did I state this?
Jan.
Jan, if you say X and X validly leads to conclusion Y then you saying X is equivalent to you saying Y. This is how logic works. If you logically implied something then it as though you have stated it, and you should take ownership and responsibility for those implications as though they are putting words in your mouth.So I didn't say it, although you make it seem as though I did. That seems to be the sad case with all the atheists who post in this thread. They put words into the theists mouth, and then base their argument on that. Hence they don't need to debate with actual theists.
So you want to focus on the atheist, who at the core of their position is the question of whether or not God exists, rather than the topic of whether or not God exists, which you consider to be off-topic???I would sooner focus on the atheist, and atheism, in this thread. Especially as it "in regards to atheism". Rather than the off-topic subject that obsesses every card carrying atheists, Does God Exist".
It has not been established. All you have done is repeated it ad nauseam.I think it has been clearly established here, that God does not exist for atheists, and will never exist as long as one remains atheist.
Few atheists seem to assert that their view is right and that the theist is wrong. If you can find a few examples from this thread, that would be a start?All that is left for the atheist is to assert that his/her world view is right and anything that is not in agreement is wrong (strangely enough this characteristic is present in most pop religions).
And if you can show that there is indeed somewhere meaningfully further to go, your comment may actually have some value.The reality is that as an atheist, you cannot go any further than your atheism.
Post 1609 - troll.
So you want to focus on the atheist, who at the core of their position is the question of whether or not God exists, rather than the topic of whether or not God exists, which you consider to be off-topic???
Oh, I forgot, you have your answer already: "because they are without God".
Furthermore, it is a rather obvious truism that an atheist will be an atheist for as long as they remain an atheist, regardless of the causes for the atheism, or what atheism
And if you can show that there is indeed somewhere meaningfully further to go, your comment may actually have some value.