In regards to atheism.

[Globalreview]

Atheism, like theism, is a belief concerning the existence or not of god(s) held without evidence, often just because you were born into a family with that POV.

I think, without supporting data, that the switch from the theistic POV to one of agnosticism is much more common with increasing education that the converse.

My personal explanation of Atheism is the absence of belief in anything.... If it's not there or explainable it does not exist. The proof that there is in fact a higher power than us is all around (and within) us. I do however not believe that this can be called God. This is nothing more than a higher Power which we cannot explain, but it is there. Also, and this is what bothers me the most about this, is that it is called "belief" and thus everyone believes... We are taught to regurgitate, not to know. Otherwise they would call it knowledge or wisdom. What are your thoughts on this?

 

[Dywyddyr]

My personal explanation of Atheism is the absence of belief in anything.

Then either you're associating with some very weird people or you're interpreting the experience very wrongly.
The clue is in the word: atheists don't believe in "god/s".
That leaves them free to believe in anything else whatsoever.

The proof that there is in fact a higher power than us is all around (and within) us.

And again: this is a personal interpretation of yours. I.e. it's neither "proof" nor a "fact".

This is nothing more than a higher Power which we cannot explain, but it is there.

Allegedly.

Also, and this is what bothers me the most about this, is that it is called "belief" and thus everyone believes.

Really?
Can you can an example of something that everyone believes in? Or is this just a claim that everyone believes in something?

We are taught to regurgitate, not to know. Otherwise they would call it knowledge or wisdom. What are your thoughts on this?

Yeah, the point that you're missing is that - with religion - we (the general "we" - certain people excepted) have to be taught to "regurgitate" because (and this is critical) it's not possible to know (because no-one does).
Thus, it IS, and remains, a belief.

 

[Globalreview]

I'll let you have more time to actually think about it.
Since it took me 3 seconds you may need slightly longer.


Yeah, I thought that was what you were getting at.
There's a far simpler answer that doesn't require such nebulous (and fictional) concepts as "god".
(Clue: stop telling yourself that it isn't possible for there to be any other reason - lose the preconceptions and stick with known facts).
I take it you only stick to "known facts"? How true are they? And what are the facts YOU believe in?

Well I suppose "Why?" and "How?" would be valid questions requiring an answer if your claim were true.
But, since it's blatantly false, they don't.
I've used 3 other, different, methods today alone.

 

[Dywyddyr]

I take it you only stick to "known facts"?

Depends on the topic I'm discussing.

How true are they? And what are the facts YOU believe in?

They are, at the very least, supported, demonstrable and testable.
And, since they are so, then, generally speaking, I don't "believe" them so much as know them.

 

[Billy T]

... This is nothing more than a higher Power which we cannot explain, but it is there. ...

How do you know this? Why not call it God? That is just a common name used by English speakers who share your unsupported belief in a "higher power."

 

[Globalreview]

Fair enough, Thanks for all the great responses! Talking facts, we are :"run" by electro magnetical impulses no? As is everything. There's a name better than GOD. And Just for the record, I do not share any belief with anyone or anything. I would however like to share and receive knowledge. And if there where no higher power than us, you tell me where this energy came from at first?

 

[Cris]

Nope.
Since it's possible to be an agnostic theist then, of necessity, they're not.
Agnosticism is a stance on what can be known about "god/s"[1].
The belief in it/ them (theism) isn't affected by this.
Thus the possible positions are: Gnostic theist, agnostic theist, gnostic atheist[2], and agnostic atheist.
A/gnosticism is orthogonal to belief.


1 Per Wiki: Agnosticism is the view that the truth values of certain claims – snip – are unknown and perhaps unknowable
2 Although I find this hard to define, or even comprehend: unless it's a claim that we can know (for certain) that "god/s" don't exist.

Yes I know all that and the vast majority of the general public would have no idea what you mean or care. The question generally put is do you follow a religion? In common usage the terms agnostic and atheist means that no religion is followed. That there might these subtle nuances is lost on most people.

Language evolves and some words are now used that do not reflect their original meanings. Some people try to maintain their original meaning and confuse everyone else. The word "decimate" for example is used widely to mean near to almost total destruction - that is the common interpretation. The original meaning, and there are several, was used to mean to kill every tenth person (10 from decimal) - and 10% loss is quite different from near total destruction. In terms of effective communication it makes no sense to maintain the original definition when the majority believe it means something else. As with atheism and agnostic, it makes no sense to stick with pedantic outdated definitions when everyone else doesn't care and have entrenched more common interpretations. If you don't go with the flow you'll be left behind and few will understand you.

Theism means belief in a god.
Atheism has come to mean do not believe in a god.
Agnosticism is the neutral position.

Anything else just confuses the debates.

 

[Dywyddyr]

Hmm, okey doke.
In which case agnosticism is a "No" position (despite some claiming that it's a "sitting on the fence" one.

 

[sideshowbob]

This is nothing more than a higher Power which we cannot explain, but it is there.

That's a typical religious response: "There are some things we can't explain - so here's the explanation."

If we really can't explain it, how can we be sure it really "is" there? There are things we can explain that aren't really there.

 

[Globalreview]

That's a typical religious response: "There are some things we can't explain - so here's the explanation."

If we really can't explain it, how can we be sure it really "is" there? There are things we can explain that aren't really there.

Let me rub this in: I AM NOT RELIGIOUS! We cannot explain it, but it is there. otherwise would we be? we are however working on finding an explanation for this. Then again, I think if we could truthfully explain how we are possible, Humankind would fall on it's back....

 

[Globalreview]

Challenge, explain something to me that isn't there...

 

[Dywyddyr]

Let me rub this in: I AM NOT RELIGIOUS!

And yet you argue that there is a "god:

My point is that there are similarities between religions that could not possibly have been as similar as they are if they weren't talking about the same Deity

AND you also make statements like this:

We cannot explain it, but it is there.

we are however working on finding an explanation for this.

An "explanation" for what exactly? And who is the "we" that's working on it?

Then again, I think if we could truthfully explain how we are possible, Humankind would fall on it's back....

Really? Why?

Challenge, explain something to me that isn't there...

If something "isn't there" (as in "doesn't exist" - as opposed to "Should be/ was there and isn't now) then A) it doesn't need explaining and B) asking for an explanation is redundant at best and ridiculously obfuscatory at worst.

 

[Cris]

My personal explanation of Atheism is the absence of belief in anything.... If it's not there or explainable it does not exist.

Haha, you will get blasted with that idea from atheists.

Think of the theist as being closed minded to everything other than their god. Whereas the atheist is willing to consider anything given adequate evidence. In this case the usual skeptical atheist is truly open minded.

The proof that there is in fact a higher power than us is all around (and within) us.

It seems we must each live in a different universe. When I look around I cannot see or sense that there is anything supernatural whatsoever, neither do such things need to exist to explain everything there is. What proof do you think you observe to suggest there is a higher power?

We are taught to regurgitate, not to know. Otherwise they would call it knowledge or wisdom. What are your thoughts on this?

Recently it seems that the Chinese are recruiting American education specialists to reform Chinese schools. The traditional Chinese system is based on memorizing lists and facts, whereas the American system is more about creativity and innovation - there are good reasons why the USA lead the world in technology and wealth. As for religion - to a large degree people tend to believe what their local traditions expect. If you were born in Iran you would almost certainly become muslim, etc. Statistical trends have shown now for decades that the better educated tend to be less religious. The correlation makes sense in an education system that emphasizes critical thinking and evidence based systems like science and technology. As global access to new technology and information is made more easily available we see a corresponding move away from religious beliefs. Evidence is everything and religions have none.

 

[Globalreview]

And yet you argue that there is a "god:
When did I do that and how? I argue a power, doesn't mean deity.
AND you also make statements like this:



An "explanation" for what exactly? And who is the "we" that's working on it?
Explanation for where this power comes from. We meaning scientist all over the world.

Really? Why?

I thinks so. I believe that the answer, when we find it, will be so clear and obvious, it will shock most of us.

 

[Globalreview]

In reply to why I think there is a higher power... OK, 'higher' might be overstating it a bit. Power as in what all of us have with no clear idea of where it came from or what caused it.

 

[Cris]

Globalreview,

I admire your courage for trying to debate with the aggressive sharks here. I am of course a friendly dolphin.

 

[Globalreview]

Nothing better than a good argument to get more view of others view and understanding, still learning myself, but so is everyone always (I hope)

 

[Cris]

In reply to why I think there is a higher power... OK, 'higher' might be overstating it a bit. Power as in what all of us have with no clear idea of where it came from or what caused it.

The absence of an explanation does not give any credibility to a fantasy speculation. When something cannot be explained then the correct approach is to admit WE DO NOT KNOW, and then search for evidence and a credible explanation. As part of that approach it is quite acceptable to speculate on possibilities and then pursue those in search of support. At no point is it acceptable to assert that a particular unsupported fantasy must be true.

 

[Dywyddyr]

Explanation for where this power comes from. We meaning scientist all over the world.

And you're wrong again.
Since, so far as science knows, there isn't any such "power" then there's no explanation being looked for by scientists. Or science.

I thinks so. I believe that the answer, when we find it, will be so clear and obvious, it will shock most of us.

Another vague, nebulous (and non-helpful) statement.

 

[sculptor]

How about:
The Cognitive-Theoretic Model of the Universe