In God We Trust

Bowser

Namaste
Valued Senior Member
So I was smoking a cigarette and happened to look down and spy a nickle. It was one of the newer mints (2006) and the design had caught my eye. I looked at it for a bit then read the words around the radius of the coin, opposite of Thomas Jefferson's profile:

IN GOD WE TRUST
Liberty

'How profound' I thought. 'Is there any better statement of faith than that?'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_(United_States_coin)
 
Isn't there some rule that Christians are supposed to be meek, and that their faith is a personal and private relationship between them and God? Well I fail to see how plastering "IN GOD WE TRUST" on every piece of money in the United States is being meek, or private. Especially since money is also an object of greed, and greed is a deadly sin. Should God's name really be on an object that arouses so much sin? It's like tattooing it on every prostitute's vagina.

Come on, true Christians! I know you're out there somewhere!
 
Well, it's nice to have SOMETHING to trust, because you sure can't trust humans! Perhaps "In God We Trust" is symbolic of that philosophy?

Baron Max
 
Well it don't say "IN ALLAH WE TRUST" now does it? so in one form or another it represents the christian ideology of which sect out of 34000 sects of christianity who knows what interpretation of god they talking about?
 
Well it don't say "IN ALLAH WE TRUST" now does it? so in one form or another it represents the christian ideology of which sect out of 34000 sects of christianity who knows what interpretation of god they talking about?

[ENC]Allah[/ENC]
 
Isn't there some rule that Christians are supposed to be meek, and that their faith is a personal and private relationship between them and God? Well I fail to see how plastering "IN GOD WE TRUST" on every piece of money in the United States is being meek, or private. Especially since money is also an object of greed, and greed is a deadly sin. Should God's name really be on an object that arouses so much sin? It's like tattooing it on every prostitute's vagina.

Come on, true Christians! I know you're out there somewhere!

okay, okay here I am I guess. Yes, it is supposed to be a personal relationship. about being meek though, while I certainly do see your point, I believe that the founding fathers wanted to be open and defiant to england. First some backstory!:D The christians, or in this case, protestants fled from england due to persecution from all the other denominations over there. Sad in my opinion of christians fighting one another. Anyways they left and built and got oppression from the english gonvernment anyways. So them putting "in god we trust" on their money, they were saying that they were serving god the right way and that he was on their side, while the catholic/Anglican people thought god was on their side. Well we all know how it ended and america won anyways. So there you go.

You do bring up a very interesting point still, why on money? well money is everywhere so the english will SURELY notice it. As for being an object of greed. Money can only be an object of sin if you use it as such. The key is to resist the temptation and use your money for what it is meant for. FOr example, the catholics fast from something that they may have a problem with, such as drugs or sex, etc. money can also be something one needs to get away from. Te whole point of lent, I think (i'm not catholic folks) is to stop focusing on something else like sex, drugs, etc. and to focus on Jesus instead. Now you cant very well fast from money now can you? but it's just something we shouldnt focus on. In my religion, (baptist), we also do a sort of lent. we fastf rom tiem to time when we realize we are worshipping something other than god. It's just not on a schedule like lent is.

in conclusion, you bring up and interesting point, it made me think.
 
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Positron,
They didn't have "In God We Trust" on the money back then.
The "God" fervor took hold during Joseph McCarthy's reign of terror against big, bad, godless communism.

Also, the founding fathers made it quite clear that this is a secular nation founded on laws and reason, not religion and faith.
Treaty of Tripoli, Article 11, reads:

"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."


From the Christian perspective...

NIV Matthew 6:1 "Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

2 "So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

5 "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
 
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I knew I had saved this old post somewhere, for just such an occasion...

Thomas Paine was a pamphleteer whose manifestos encouraged the faltering spirits of the country and aided materially in winning the war of Independence:
I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of...Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all."
Source: The Age of Reason by Thomas Paine, pp. 8,9 (Republished 1984, Prometheus Books, Buffalo, NY)


George Washington, the first president of the United States, never declared himself a Christian according to contemporary reports or in any of his voluminous correspondence. Washington Championed the cause of freedom from religious intolerance and compulsion. When John Murray (a universalist who denied the existence of hell) was invited to become an army chaplain, the other chaplains petitioned Washington for his dismissal. Instead, Washington gave him the appointment. On his deathbed, Washinton uttered no words of a religious nature and did not call for a clergyman to be in attendance.
Source: George Washington and Religion by Paul F. Boller Jr., pp. 16, 87, 88, 108, 113, 121, 127 (1963, Southern Methodist University Press, Dallas, TX)


John Adams, the country's second president, was drawn to the study of law but faced pressure from his father to become a clergyman. He wrote that he found among the lawyers 'noble and gallant achievments" but among the clergy, the "pretended sanctity of some absolute dunces". Late in life he wrote: "Twenty times in the course of my late reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it!"

It was during Adam's administration that the Senate ratified the Treaty of Peace and Friendship, which states in Article XI that "the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion."
Source: The Character of John Adams by Peter Shaw, pp. 17 (1976, North Carolina Press, Chapel Hill, NC) Quoting a letter by JA to Charles Cushing Oct 19, 1756, and John Adams, A Biography in his Own Words, edited by James Peabody, p. 403 (1973, Newsweek, New York NY) Quoting letter by JA to Jefferson April 19, 1817, and in reference to the treaty, Thomas Jefferson, Passionate Pilgrim by Alf Mapp Jr., pp. 311 (1991, Madison Books, Lanham, MD) quoting letter by TJ to Dr. Benjamin Waterhouse, June, 1814.


Thomas Jefferson, third president and author of the Declaration of Independence, said:"I trust that there is not a young man now living in the United States who will not die a Unitarian." He referred to the Revelation of St. John as "the ravings of a maniac" and wrote:
The Christian priesthood, finding the doctrines of Christ levelled to every understanding and too plain to need explanation, saw, in the mysticisms of Plato, materials with which they might build up an artificial system which might, from its indistinctness, admit everlasting controversy, give employment for their order, and introduce it to profit, power, and pre-eminence. The doctrines which flowed from the lips of Jesus himself are within the comprehension of a child; but thousands of volumes have not yet explained the Platonisms engrafted on them: and for this obvious reason that nonsense can never be explained."
Source: Thomas Jefferson, an Intimate History by Fawn M. Brodie, p. 453 (1974, W.W) Norton and Co. Inc. New York, NY) Quoting a letter by TJ to Alexander Smyth Jan 17, 1825, and Thomas Jefferson, Passionate Pilgrim by Alf Mapp Jr., pp. 246 (1991, Madison Books, Lanham, MD) quoting letter by TJ to John Adams, July 5, 1814.

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter." -- Thomas Jefferson (letter to J. Adams April 11,1823)


James Madison, fourth president and father of the Constitution, was not religious in any conventional sense. "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."
"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."
Source: The Madisons by Virginia Moore, P. 43 (1979, McGraw-Hill Co. New York, NY) quoting a letter by JM to William Bradford April 1, 1774, and James Madison, A Biography in his Own Words, edited by Joseph Gardner, p. 93, (1974, Newsweek, New York, NY) Quoting Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments by JM, June 1785.


Ethan Allen, whose capture of Fort Ticonderoga while commanding the Green Mountain Boys helped inspire Congress and the country to pursue the War of Independence, said, "That Jesus Christ was not God is evidence from his own words." In the same book, Allen noted that he was generally "denominated a Deist, the reality of which I never disputed, being conscious that I am no Christian." When Allen married Fanny Buchanan, he stopped his own wedding ceremony when the judge asked him if he promised "to live with Fanny Buchanan agreeable to the laws of God." Allen refused to answer until the judge agreed that the God referred to was the God of Nature, and the laws those "written in the great book of nature."
Source: Religion of the American Enlightenment by G. Adolph Koch, p. 40 (1968, Thomas Crowell Co., New York, NY.) quoting preface and p. 352 of Reason, the Only Oracle of Man and A Sense of History compiled by American Heritage Press Inc., p. 103 (1985, American Heritage Press, Inc., New York, NY.)


Benjamin Franklin, delegate to the Continental Congress and the Constitutional Convention, said:
As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion...has received various corrupting Changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his Divinity; tho' it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the Truth with less trouble." He died a month later, and historians consider him, like so many great Americans of his time, to be a Deist, not a Christian.
Source: Benjamin Franklin, A Biography in his Own Words, edited by Thomas Fleming, p. 404, (1972, Newsweek, New York, NY) quoting letter by BF to Exra Stiles March 9, 1790.


The words "In God We Trust" were not consistently on all U.S. currency until 1956, during the McCarthy Hysteria.


The Treaty of Tripoli, passed by the U.S. Senate in 1797, read in part: "The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion." The treaty was written during the Washington administration, and sent to the Senate during the Adams administration. It was read aloud to the Senate, and each Senator received a printed copy. This was the 339th time that a recorded vote was required by the Senate, but only the third time a vote was unanimous (the next time was to honor George Washington). There is no record of any debate or dissension on the treaty. It was reprinted in full in three newspapers - two in Philadelphia, one in New York City. There is no record of public outcry or complaint in subsequent editions of the papers.


And some quotes from Thomas Jefferson for you:

"History I believe furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose. " -- Thomas Jefferson to Baron von Humboldt, 1813

"Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because if there be one he must approve of the homage of reason more than that of blindfolded fear." --Thomas Jefferson, Letter to Peter Carr, August 10, 1787

"The Christian god can easily be pictured as virtually the same god as the many ancient gods of past civilizations. The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel, vengeful and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites." -- Thomas Jefferson

"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity." --Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782.

"And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors." --Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

"Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. ...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus."

" I have examined all the known superstitions of the word, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth."

What was Jeffersons exact word for the Bible? "Dunghill."


This is all just the tip of the iceberg.


U.S. President John Adams wrote in his 1788 "A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America":

"Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind."

President Adams also stated in his "A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America":

"The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now suffieciently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this even an era in thier history.

Although the detail of the formation of the American governments is at present little known or regarded either in Europe or in America, it may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and and the senses..."
 
IN GOD WE TRUST
Liberty


I might be going out on a limb here, but I do not believe you need be a Christian to appreciate the above :shrug:
 
One Raven,

seems you beat me. It was just a theory I had, after all my American history is a bit, okay, really rusty.
 
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