imagination

I agree fully I imagine.

I have often tried to explore the concept of what I called Shared reality perceptions. Similar to what I humoursly refered to as collective imagination. ( or reflective imagination)

People so often disregard the commonality that we all share and determine it all as purely subjective but this of course is only focusing on the lack of commonality.

An apple in form and construction is the same for the Xindians as it is for us. This I would be very confident in saying.

Our planet exists for them to percieve as it does for us. Maybe different colours etc. but I would assume definitely spherical with a moon orbiting. The physics would be similar if not common.

Their subjectivity allows for their unique perpective of what we all share. And what we share is a common imagination that we can be imaginative with.

My thoughts anyway.
 
Yeah, this comes down to the philosophical assertion that all perception is theory-laden. Whether an apple is the same thing for all of us is not known, but I think it's rather unlikely, except for its very general features.
 
It's sort of strange I think that we can go down the subjectivity path so strongly and ignore evidence that suggests commonality.

For example if the subjective nature of perception was so extreme then producers of media such as advertisments, movies, music, cars, or anything would fail to be successful.

The fact that a movie can move it's audience as a collective would to me indicate a significant amount of shared reality happening.

The mere fact that you can understand what I am writing from your own unique perspective whilst attempting to share mine is in it self evidence of commonality of perception.

Using subjectivity as a way to justify disagreement I feel is poor philosophy.
 
Fair point. Clearly there is an amazing degree of commonality (so much it's almost hard to explain). But we shouldn't overlook the fact that every experience is unique.

When I read a word the meaning is not the same for me as it is for anyone else. The meaning is inextricably connected to, derived from, everything else I know. When I see an apple I see it my way, my visual image, my associations and so on.

So I'm not disgreeing about commonality, just saying that our commonality of experience is very general, the details are uniquely subjective, incommensurable and incommunicable.
 
I agree our commonalities are unarguable. But those commonalities just define the rules of our reality, we can't fly (unaided), we need food, we'll bleed when cut, etc. so in many ways we are identical. On the other-hand we are individually contained inside our heads and totally separated from each other. Though we so obviously share a great deal we are equally, utterly different.

I guess my point is that I think we can use subjectivity to justify disagreement, in fact I'd argue that subjectivity is the only justification. If we all saw and understood everything exactly the same there would be no disagreements.
 
Then isn't it just a question of balance.

As you know, maintaining a balnced perspective is an ongoing challenge that if successful allows us the greatest degree of sanity.

So often when discussing the nature of the mind be it imagination or thought or perception I read of views that to me seem to lack balance in perspective. Am I the only one who sees this? I don't think that this is so. Because so often arguement is enetered into to try and pull the other persons perspective back into a certain balance.

Any analysis of the threads in this and any other forum will show this I think.

I tend to think of the percentage relationship of difference and commonality,

I tend to think of it as a sort of 80% common 19% different and 1% abberant. But this is my view.

The other thing to consider is that even when considering uniqueness , subjectivity there is considerable commonality.

May be we just like fighting for our uniqueness and if we see ourselves as common we immediately try to state our uniqueness.
 
buffy the vampire slayer

On the other-hand we are individually contained inside our heads and totally separated from each other. Though we so obviously share a great deal we are equally, utterly different.
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Actually buff, individuals are not equally and utterly different.
There are four primary work styles, four primary temperments,
four this, four that (why four all the time... odd). Bottom line,
there are MANY commonalities about what drives people, how
they behave, what stresses them out, how they work, what
they feel in various situations.
 
say we have to balls of glass ( marbles ) they look Identical they are made almost identical. And even if they were exact clones of each other they will still be different.

The space they occupy is different, they are in a different location in 4 dim space. They exist in different time zones, they are clones but they are very unique.

The only difference between you and me is essentially that you are there and I am here and that this has existed our entire lives and our genetic history etc.

They once stated that over time one became two and those two unique perspectives have evolved in to an infinite multitude of unique perspectives yet all sharing the same premise.

I used to say the joke by stating to a child that we were the same age. The child would of course say "no we are not I am 8 an you are 40" and I would say but we are the same age because we are made of the same stuff that accoording to the scientist came into existance 29 billion years ago ( give or take a years or so) so therefore you are the same age as me.
( how does it feel to be 29 billion years old I would ask?):)

Hmmmmm....funny waste of mind time one thinks but if you look at the issue of uniqueness, we really aren't it's just that we wear our own shoes so to speak. And we can't physically wear the shows of someone else because of location.

And over time we express our uniqueness because we all move to a different rhythm and our expressions are unique only because of the time they are expressed and the knowledge that the unique locations has afforded.

One day I will express anger the next day you will and some times we will do it together, etc etc.

So as it is we have an incredible variation in diversity thaat really is just the same thing but infinitely variable in it's application.

Buffys I dissagree when you say we are isolated and alone for truely even our prayers are heard, just no responded to.

We are never alone and in some way everything is shared. There is no such thing as privacy.
 
I think the reason commonalities are focused on less is simply because we all share them, whats to say? If I want to go out for dinner with someone its not our similarity (we both need food to live) that dictates whether we go or not, it's our differences (whether their schedule allows it or if they are hungry at that moment, etc.). It may be an 80/20 split but the 20% is what matters because we have the 80% in common. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying our similarities aren't important its just there isn't much to say beyond the fact that we share them.

May be we just like fighting for our uniqueness and if we see ourselves as common we immediately try to state our uniqueness.
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can't argue with that, we grow up hearing how special and unique we are from our parents so when we realize that the world would still turn even if we didn't exist it's a tough thing to swallow. The need to underline our uniqueness seems to fit into the 'commonality' area, kinda ironic when you think about it.
 
Actually buff, individuals are not equally and utterly different.
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fair enough, my point is we're different. Feel free to remove the 'equally and utterly' part but I stand by the rest.
 
The only difference between you and me is essentially that you are there and I am here and that this has existed our entire lives and our genetic history etc.
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yes and those a REALLY big differences, if they weren't present I'd be you and communication would be unnecessary.

Buffys I disagree when you say we are isolated and alone for truely even our prayers are heard, just no responded to.
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Even if someone watches our lives with hidden cameras and records every word spoken but never makes their observation known you're still alone in your head (unless you're schizophrenic), there is no relationship without interaction but whether or not god exists and is listening is another conversation. I meant there is no way to crawl into one another's head and see things precisely as they do, we try to communicate, share ideas and feelings but its clumsy and imperfect. Language and other forms of communication can only bring across so much, ultimately we are the only ones who know precisely what we are trying to convey. In that sense we are alone.


sorry for the multiple posts, just trying to catch up.
 
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