I'm ok, You're a CLONE!

Is this moral? I suspect that most people would say no, it's not moral to clone someone just so you can take a kidney because it violates the rights of the clone.

Where did the clone get those "rights"? Without fully answering that pivotal question, there's no answer to your questions of morality.

I daresay that most everyone here feels that the lower animals have "rights", yet I would also say that most everyone here eats the meat of some of those same animals. Moral? Hmm?

So if one raises cattle in order to have meat to eat, is it any different to "raising" a clone to harvest his parts?

Baron Max
 
Rights? It's a human. It has rights.

Well, that's pretty easy to say, but those same rights are violated every day, all over the world, and no one does a fuckin' thing about it. So, ....what good are "rights" if no one enforces those rights?

See? We can talk about human rights, we can insist that humans have rights, but it still leave open the questions ...where do those rights come from? How are they enforced? And if they aren't enforced, then what prevents others from violating those rights?

Baron Max
 
Are we still talking about clones?

StarWarsBattlefront2_PC.jpg
 
One , two , three or more...where will it end...if ever. Think about it if there were 5 exact replicas of yourself and one commits a murder how do we tell the one that did it when the fingerprints and DNA all match?
The fingerprints wouldn't match. Even twins (which are basically natural clones) have different finger prints.

Regarding the OP, there's really only one reason to not do human cloning right now. It's not, by any means, perfected. You'd be exposing the clone to a myriad of unknown "side effects" from the cloning. I think I've heard that many animal clones have had unusual health problems such as premature aging due (perhaps) to the the short telomeres on the cells they were created from.
 
Remember, as one gets older, the view of death changes ...becomes more acceptable. Youth seems to have a built-in self-preservation factor that's extremely strong. That grows weaker as time goes on.
I’m not so sure I agree.
In my experience, youth has an invincible complex, and the older you get and more aware you become of your own mortality, the more scared of death you get.

While I don't disagree, be careful that you don't over-romanticize the nomadic life of the Native Americans.
I hear you, man.
I have been guilty of both buying into the “noble savage” myth and the grass being greener.
It’s no wonder that I feel like the world really started going to shit right about 1968 – I was born in ’71. :)
It was a damned hard life, fraught with danger, and death was always damned close by. A simple wound, an accident, could become infected and one often died a painful death.
You seem to be missing that I would greatly appreciate that “damned hard” life.
We have been so disgustingly spoiled by technology, medicine and industry.
As much as I can see the flaws in Marxism, I can greatly appreciate what Marx and Nietzsche said about the dignity and self reliance that comes with hard work and seeing the fruits of your labor.
People who have to hunt, gather, farm and make everything manually if they want to survive have a real connection to their work.
If you don’t work, your family starves – if you do work, they eat. It’s a pretty simple morality and structure.
What we have these days is people, completely disconnected from their labor, working for some asshole they don’t like in a corporation that means nothing to them producing things they will never see (if they even produce, rather than just broker deals) all for nothing but a paycheck.
And the goal of it all it to make enough of this abstract, meaningless “money” to not work anymore and become worthless to society.
Trick is, though, that whether or not you have a cognizant understand of it, you have always been worthless to society. Once you retire and the world doesn’t crash that becomes painfully obvious.

It’s no surprise that the vast majority of men in this country die within 5 years of retirement.
 
Well, we were until you veered off and started giving them rights and all that bullshit. So I thought we should settle that part first.

Baron Max

OK, well they're still human beings and all that. So they should have rights proportional to other humans around them. If that means some kind of social Darwinianism, then fine.
 
OK, well they're still human beings and all that. So they should have rights proportional to other humans around them.

Ahh, but ARE they "humans"? If someone specifically, and intentionally, creates the clone ...FOR THE EXPRESS PURPOSE... of harvesting their internal organs, then.....?

See what I mean? Would that "contract" keep that clone from being considered as just another human?

Baron Max
 
I’m not so sure I agree. In my experience, youth has an invincible complex, and the older you get and more aware you become of your own mortality, the more scared of death you get.

Yeah, sure, ...but that's because you're still a baby and wet behind the ears! Wait 'til you get as old as me, then you'll begin to understand. :D

It’s no wonder that I feel like the world really started going to shit right about 1968 – I was born in ’71.

The world began to go to shit just after WW II. People, especially the US, began to think of themselves as "special", that they deserved every-fuckin'-thing RIGHT NOW. And it steadily became worse as, you guessed it, as they began to actually GET all those things!

You seem to be missing that I would greatly appreciate that “damned hard” life.

I agree! I grew up on a farm - a hard life. But ever since I left it, I've been yearning to return to it ...but have been stymied at every turn. I'm now with enough money to buy a farm, but too fuckin' old to farm it.

Trick is, though, that whether or not you have a cognizant understand of it, you have always been worthless to society.

I was lucky, I understood it long before I retired ...then I retired at 55 and have been the happiest sonuvabitch in the world. :D

Baron Max
 
Ahh, but ARE they "humans"? If someone specifically, and intentionally, creates the clone ...FOR THE EXPRESS PURPOSE... of harvesting their internal organs, then.....?

See what I mean? Would that "contract" keep that clone from being considered as just another human?

Baron Max

You evidently do not know what a clone is.
1111
 
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