I'm Confused about Jesus

A

alain

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Registered Senior Member
He was apparently without sin, right?

and yet, by choosing to go to his execution, he was commiting suicide, because he knew that the Roman's would kill him, just as someone who jumps off a building is committing suicide because they know the ground will kill them.

I'm not familiar with the bible, but don't you get sent to hell for commiting suicide?
 
Heh. Just another Christian absurdity. Furthermore if, as Christians believe, Jesus is God, he cannot die as he is immortal. Kinda silly religion eh?
 
I don't believe Jesus did the best job of keeping them from killing him but if he would've ran away and acted cowardice, people would've spoken bad of him anyway. Or if he fought them, for a perfect man, he would've gotten backlash. Fact is, he wasn't perfect and may have committed sin by not avoiding death to the best of his ability if he didn't. So what if he sinned? We all do.
 
usp8riot said:
Fact is, he wasn't perfect and may have committed sin by not avoiding death to the best of his ability if he didn't. So what if he sinned? We all do.
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Reading the story of Prophet Jesus, Isa, (a) you will see that he lived his life very carefully and never committed wrong or wronged anyone. Prophets were not capable of sinning, because sinning means that they have intentionally done an evil thing knowing truly well what they were doing. Prophets are human beings and can fall into error from time to time, however they do not do this on purpose, hence it cannot be considered sin. The Prophets of Allah swt (peace be to them) are chosen above all other human beings because they are the best of human beings, they are not sinners.

As far as the topic is concerned. Muslims believe that the Messiah (a) was never crucified on the cross. Allah swt raised him into Heaven before and that it was made to appear to the disbelievers that he was killed, yet the true believers knew he wasn't. We believe it would not fit the majesty of Allah swt to condemn one of his best servants on a cross. This symbol was chosen for the crucifiction, because it was believed that one killed on a cross was the cursed of God.

Peace.
 
alain said:
He was apparently without sin, right?

and yet, by choosing to go to his execution, he was commiting suicide, because he knew that the Roman's would kill him, just as someone who jumps off a building is committing suicide because they know the ground will kill them.

I'm not familiar with the bible, but don't you get sent to hell for commiting suicide?
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A God-conscious person must always upholds the law of the land, and even though he did this perfectly, the government deemed him treasonous and so sentenced him to death. He accepted this as his fate because it came from the "authority" of the land. To try and run from this sentence would not have benifited him in anyway.

Jan.
 
Hero mythology always has more emotional appeal if the hero gets whacked at the end. Its as simple as that: just another hook for the story.
 
A God-conscious person must always upholds the law of the land, and even though he did this perfectly, the government deemed him treasonous and so sentenced him to death.
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So you contradict yourself Jan, If the government deemed him treasonous, then he was not following the law of the land. For he claimed to be the son of god, thus breaking the law, by blaspheme.

I thought that we agreed, jesus did not exist?
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Yea! but then again, some-one named jesus was crusified, though it may have been any of these, or all of them piled up into one character, in the bs book.
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Godless
 
he was commiting suicide
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well to qualify it needs to be done by ones own hand. really from what i heard the only message was "to love one another"...in that respect you could see why he wanted to depart.
 
alain said:
He was apparently without sin, right?

and yet, by choosing to go to his execution, he was commiting suicide, because he knew that the Roman's would kill him...
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Assuming that the gospels are a true account, they seem to suggest that Jesus was EXPECTING God to save him from death on the cross.

Just before he died, he lifted up his voice to the heavens and cried out:
"My God! Why have you forsaken me?"
 
would there be any disbelievers now if god had saved him, even the romans would have bowed to such a person, but it's all BS.
 
The exact definitions of sin were not codified until later. Self-sacrifice was usually considered noble, as with the thousands of Christians who were later killed by the Romans for being Christian. They almost always had a chance to acknowledge Roman gods, after which they would be freed.
 
after which they would be freed.
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instead they chose to be fed to the lions, a church sits atop the very site...ironic.

could be wrong though, at least i think i read that. uuhh not sure.
 
Alejandro said:
instead they chose to be fed to the lions, a church sits atop the very site...ironic.

could be wrong though, at least i think i read that. uuhh not sure.
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M*W: No, I don't think that's right. Allegedly, there were lions in the Coliseum in Rome that were fed Christians for the entertainment of the populace. No church "sits atop" that site.

Where else are you talking about? Besides, the story about the christian-eating lions may be just another tall tale. The Coliseum in Rome was used for other entertainment, i.e. gladiators and such.
 
I think the stories about Christians being slaughtered for sport are true. There is some cooberation in Roman accounts. Not only lions but even more painful tortures were common. I daresay even worse than what Jesus suffered.
 
Well if that's the definition of sin, Diamond, then there's not many sinners. Even people on these forums who aren't religious, I'm sure most have a kind heart and intend no harm on anyone. If that's the case, why shouldn't I be non-religious then and just have a kind heart and intending no harm on anyone, then I will be sinless. Sin to me is doing wrong, meaning it or not. When someone does wrong and doesn't mean it, it will still have bad consequences. I've used the analogy once before on here, but if a surgeon makes a mistake and kills someone he's operating on, is it not wrong that he killed them? Sure, he may have not meant it, but if he was incompetent to be a surgeon, shouldn't there be some kind of consequence? He may not have studied like he should, should he not be held accountable for being ignorant? We know ignorance kills, you can't deny that. We know killing someone isn't good, you can't deny that. Is there evil people that just do things to cause no good at all? Even a murderer can feel it will do him good to get rid of someone. In their mind, they have no evil intentions, is this not sin? Point is, wrong whether believed good for someone or not is still wrong/sin, so my definition is correct. That is why there are so many things about Islam and religion in general that just doesn't make sense. Listen to myself, starting to talk like an atheist now, yeesh. But I believe in God, just as Muhammed did but feel it's time to make sense of all the inconsistencies of the other religions, including Islam.
 
Medicine Woman said:
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M*W: No, I don't think that's right. Allegedly, there were lions in the Coliseum in Rome that were fed Christians for the entertainment of the populace. No church "sits atop" that site.

Where else are you talking about? Besides, the story about the christian-eating lions may be just another tall tale. The Coliseum in Rome was used for other entertainment, i.e. gladiators and such.
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damn, i may have seen it on t.v then. i am not trying to start a rumor or anything ;) - but there IS a church built over something important, and i am sure it's in Italy.

I cant see that happening either, but at least one Emperor was insane. So could be true.
 
geeser said:
would there be any disbelievers now if god had saved him, even the romans would have bowed to such a person,
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It wasn't that Jesus got crucified that made him special, lots of people got crucified. It was the fact that he showed up 3 days later like "Hey guys, what's up?" that got everyone's attention. You know, that whole part where God saved him from death.
 
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