If there is no God

A

azriel

Registered Member
I'm not arguing for or against, personally I couldn't care less but if there is no God then there is no Devil ergo that would make all religion a fallacy. If Jehovah is a delusion and Allah a delusion then there's only humans. Scientifically speaking everything that lives has energy and energy can neither be created nor destroyed so when a living thing perishes what happens to the energy? A rhetorical question that requires no answer (don't forget, I don't care).

If man is alone in this world (if not the universe) and science clearly shows that he's destroying himself, what's going to become of your children or grandchildren? From a scientific perspective does evidence show that President Bush (a christian) gives a shit about your grandchildren? Does the leader of Iran give a shit about the Iranian children?

Based on scientific evidence you people better hope (for the sake of your children and their children) that there is a God otherwise all Earthly life is pretty well doomed.

Well I'm going to go get in my free car and pump somemore carbon monoxide into the atmosphere because the sooner this planet and all of it's inhabitants are destroyed the better I'm going to like it, but I'm not the Devil and I didn't feed you a whole book full of horseshit that you could fight over and destroy each other over. The last thing that I said to that fuckin' asshole when he threw me out was that I was going to turn every one of you fuckin' clowns away from him and it looks like I win.
 
Azriel --- you people better hope (for the sake of your children and their children) that there is a God otherwise all Earthly life is pretty well doomed

Stranger ===== WHY do people assume a god is benevolent?????????????? Or sane???
 
Based on all the relevant evidence the earth being doomed is a forgone conclusion in about 300 million to 1 billion years. Of course we could screw it up sooner than that if we don't get some snap and I doubt we'll last even a fraction of that as a species. We've been changing at a pretty fast clip for such things and now we can reach in and muck around directly.

Personally I'm thinking terraforming titan is the best bet for carbon based life. Plenty of fuel in saturn to last thru proton decay and far enough out to survive nova.
 
ya, I know but your economy is still collapsing and you pay for everything while I pay for nothing
 
Our world is certainly threatened by the power that science has revealed to us. However, I do not place false hope that some supernatural father figure will save the day. This is a transition point for our species that we must cross. We are not alone in the world, it is full of living things, some of which have mental powers that approach our own.
 
Eventually we'll get over this whole religion thing. Perhaps not spirituality, but this dogmatic, stringent and ugly thing that we've carried since the Bronze Age thanks to a handful of minor events that swung in the favor of the faiths will likely fade in time. The more we educate the masses, the less they will believe in scary sky gods.
 
spidergoat said:
This is a transition point for our species that we must cross.
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I think life, as well as human life, has been making those "transition points" for several gazillion years. What's so different about this one?

In fact, I'll bet a bunch of Cro-Magnons were sitting around a campfire in Europe discussing that very subject. "Geez, Og, I think we're in a transition point for our species, don'tcha' think?"

Baron Max
 
Baron Max said:
I think life, as well as human life, has been making those "transition points" for several gazillion years. What's so different about this one?

In fact, I'll bet a bunch of Cro-Magnons were sitting around a campfire in Europe discussing that very subject. "Geez, Og, I think we're in a transition point for our species, don'tcha' think?"

Baron Max
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Technically, we're always in transition. I mean, look at the appendix. It's a vestigial organ. At some point in our past it served a purpose, but today it doesn't. It's not gone, but it's going. Transition.
 
Dangerous impotence

Baron Max said:

I think life, as well as human life, has been making those "transition points" for several gazillion years. What's so different about this one?
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Human life has something of a say in its transitions in a manner unique among known life forms. Indeed, if you consider the ideological evolution of the Christian experience throughout its history, only a few of those transitions stand out as remotely similar in the magnitude of the paradigm shift. Even the transformation of Satan into the Devil so many of us chuckle at today isn't as big as the shift implied by reconciling monotheism with reality.

Fundamental morality can be reckoned rationally. Resolving what is real and true is, indeed, a complex process, but it certainly is not helped any by the convenient retreat to what God says, or God's will, or however anyone wants to phrase it. By and large, in referring to myth to answer necessary objective considerations, we simply surrender the consideration and attempt to absolve ourselves of the responsibility of difficult and often dangerous thought.

And yet, we'll climb mountains, so to speak, because they are there.

Emerging from the current monotheistic swamp will not sweep away religion entirely. It will not lay God to rest once and for all. Rather, it will transform how we perceive and interact with the concept of God, and whatever figurehead emerges will more closely reflect the realities we experience. God will, perhaps, always serve as a comforting notion during troubled times, but the reality is that the foremost paradigm, at least in American culture, is already generally impotent. Recognizing this will only help our culture and, thereby, our species. Suppressing that recognition will lead on the social scale, much as it does at the individual level, to internal conflict.

During Peter Sutcliffe's trial, he revealed that he first murdered after a prostitute accused him of being "fucking useless" when he was unable to get an erection. After this humiliation, he said he experienced a "seething rage" and attacked, killed, and mutilated her. As Wendy Holloway reported, other men easily identified with his emotions and responded sympathetically. Sir Michael Havers, the prosecuting attorney, said of the prostitute's behavior, "Was this not a classic example of provocation?" The Observer commented:

It is not hard to see how this cocktail of frustration, guilt and humiliation could lead to fury, and the fury to an urge not just for revenge but for the satisfaction in spirit if not in the body of his sexual urge.​

As Sutcliffe himself said, "To be honest I pulled up her clothing to satisfy some sort of sexual revenge on her." Mutilation was his form of "spiritual" satisfaction, gynocide the means of venting his "righteous anger."

(Caputi, 145-146)
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Now, while society isn't about to go out and specifically start sexually mutilating women—at least, not so directly quite yet—we already see some of our spiritual impotence manifesting in the form of wars, rumors of wars, and short-tempered bigotry. The butchery of Iraqi and Afghan civilians is excused as a tragic necessity of war, yet such mitigation contradicts our imagined purpose in these wars. The notion of winning hearts and minds is a smokescreen, a smiled lie that masks the inner, seething rage. Someone blew up our towers. Let's go kill something.

The concept of spiritual impotence is more real and direct than the Christian notion of being "circumcised in our hearts". Spiritual impotence is not restricted to Christians or monotheists. Indeed, our Muslim, Hindu, Wiccan, and even atheistic neighbors are all at risk of the psychological contagion. And we see, time and time again, what happens when the sickness sets in. People become agitated, paranoid. They exact revenge, seeking spiritual satisfaction for their righteous anger.

How long we wait to cross the threshold will be recorded in history by a body count, and bequeathed diary tales and social legends that spell naught but blood and gloom and tears.
____________________

Notes:

Caputi, Jane. The Age of the Sex Crime. Bowling Green: Popular Press, 1987.

See also: Google Books — http://books.google.com/books?id=6naKaWROJ0gC
​
 
Tiassa said:
Human life has something of a say in its transitions in a manner unique among known life forms.
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So, there ya' go with that "unique" term ...which is exactly what the religious groups continue to push ...which you continue to deny vehemently.

Humans are nothing more than other animals on Earth. Yes, they're different, but so is a lion different to a gazelle or an ape to a fish.

Unique? No, I don't think so ...and past human history has shown almost conclusively that they're by far the most violent ...especially against their own kind.

Unique? Hmm, perhaps God did have something to do with it, huh? :)

Baron Max
 
Lions are unique in particular aspects, as are Zebrafish, Gnus, and Squirrel Monkeys, and Humans. Which is all irrelevant to the thrust of the post, anyway.
 
azriel said:
I..
Scientifically speaking everything that lives has energy and energy can neither be created nor destroyed so when a living thing perishes what happens to the energy?
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what happens to the Light when you turn off the switch?
If man is alone in this world
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he should find a woman! :D
and science clearly shows that he's destroying himself,
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really? so how long did people used to live say 100 or 200 years ago ?

man thnx to science lives way better and longer then ever,and by the looks of it will improve even more once you toss the stupid superstitious religious krap outta here..
Based on scientific evidence you people better hope (for the sake of your children and their children) that there is a God otherwise all Earthly life is pretty well doomed.
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that dont make any sense.
Well I'm going to go get in my free car and pump somemore carbon monoxide into the atmosphere because the sooner this planet and all of it's inhabitants are destroyed the better I'm going to like it,
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go ahead,wont change a thing ,,the trees need that stuff to live,while giving us back oxygen,,isnt nature wonderful! :p
 
azriel said:
If Jehovah is a delusion and Allah a delusion then there's only humans.

[...]

If man is alone in this world
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What of other life and other material in the universe, much of which is more wondrous and far more durable (older and will be here long after man) than mere humans?
 
azriel everything that lives has energy and energy can neither be created nor destroyed so when a living thing perishes what happens to the energy?

It also has matter, occupies space and has momentum.

But while you are composed of all that, just like the Mona Lisa is composed of pigments and canvas, it is how the matter and energy is organized that results in you. When that organization is lost, everything remains. It just isn't you any more.
 
There's no sense in my debating the issue with you, we will never agree and as I write this on my free computer in my free chair, I have to decide which free leather jacket I'm going to wear when I sit on my free couch to put on my free shoes ot go get into my free car to drive to get my free coffee. As you can see FREE is one of my favorite words. (excuse me, I have to go get my free cigarettes of of my free coffee table) and while your economy is collapsing, your world is going up in smoke and your government is robbing you blind (not to mention that people are killing people everyday), I'll have to remember to take my free laundry out of my free dryer that I washed in my free washing machine because I'll have to have clean free clothes to wear when I go out tonight to drink my free beer at the pub. I thought about finding a woman but they cost money so I just wait until society forks out for a lady (of the evening) and it happens a lot more often than you would think and once we're finished I just kiss her good night, send her on her way and lock the door to my free house.

Maybe I shouldn't have called my God an asshole after all, I don't know of anybody else who's life is as free as mine ergo I don't think he hates me as much as he hates you.

Have a nice day
 
azriel There's no sense in my debating the issue with you

So why did you start a discussion?

If you are so free, why do you care so much about what your things cost?
 
I'm not arguing for or against, personally I couldn't care less but if there is no God then there is no Devil ergo that would make all religion a fallacy. If Jehovah is a delusion and Allah a delusion then there's only humans. Scientifically speaking everything that lives has energy and energy can neither be created nor destroyed so when a living thing perishes what happens to the energy? A rhetorical question that requires no answer (don't forget, I don't care).
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Thanks for reminding us that you don't care. ;) Other than that, that's an excellent question. It only shows that one has to contradict reality to deny God. even scientists know that eternity exists and that there is an eternal force. But science has no explanation for the beginning of life, and thus the purpose of life and the order of each DNA. They either ignore it or make up contradictory explanations of it. But that's of course because they're looking in the wrong place for the truth; to fallible human minds which will always result in fallible conclusions. ;)
 
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