If religion isn't a motivator for violence...

[S.A.M.]

how do you then explain people who are brought up in secular developed countries,

You are confusing schooling with education.

How do you explain secular countries who make loud noises about peace and then sell armaments to repressive regimes?

Doesn't it seem weird to you that the 5 members of the UN security council are also the top arms manufacturers and sellers in the world?

 

[S.A.M.]

All religion is fucking bullshit for the simple reason being religious nuts cant grasp the simple concept of free thought, christians are taught they need to believe in god and go to church etc or they go to hell, + those mad muslims with their suicide bombing tendencies whats that all about? so they get to heaven... wtf cookoo....

Careful Dug-T

You are dripping with "free thought"

 

[KennyJC]

You are confusing schooling with education.

How do you explain secular countries who make loud noises about peace and then sell armaments to repressive regimes?

Doesn't it seem weird to you that the 5 members of the UN security council are also the top arms manufacturers and sellers in the world?

Again, you are completely swerving the issue.

If you want to talk about arms dealing, then that would be a thread for the "World" section of these forums.

I am talking about the effect that religion has on individuals to condone or take part in violence.

 

[S.A.M.]

Again, you are completely swerving the issue.

If you want to talk about arms dealing, then that would be a thread for the "World" section of these forums.

I am talking about the effect that religion has on individuals to condone or take part in violence.

You seem to forget that the terrorists get their arms somewhere.

Where do they get them from? Do they manufacture them at home?

And I'm still waiting for the names of terrorists who are incited to violence by Islam

I am not convinced that their motivaton is religion

 

[KennyJC]

I am not convinced that their motivaton is religion

I seem to remember you stating that the 7/7 bombers were carrying out their actions because of the way the media had portrayed their religion since 9/11. By your own admission they were acting out of defence of their religion.

 

[S.A.M.]

I seem to remember you stating that the 7/7 bombers were carrying out their actions because of the way the media had portrayed their religion since 9/11. By your own admission they were acting out of defence of their religion.

You are mistaken; I was talking about the poll results in UK not the terrorists.

 

[hug-a-tree]

...Would you feel confident walking around the Middle East or the Bible Belt saying how irrational their religion is?

If I said some of the things in those streets as I do here on these forums, how long would I last before being killed or injured in some way?

And this, because I stated the obvious. A persons belief in a certain religion, would motivate them to cause harm to someone who refutes it.

What if I did this in my hometown? Nobody would give a shit as there are no deeply religious views in my area.

Oh come on buddy! Why would you want to go do something like that? Of course people would get pissed off ! You're saying everything they believe and hold true is irrational. People aren't always rational.
Besides you going on the streets and saying that would be irrational. = /

 

[KennyJC]

You are mistaken; I was talking about the poll results in UK not the terrorists.

The poll results showing 400,000+ sympathisers to the 7/7 bombers in the UK was frightening. 40% of British Muslims also want sharia law implemented within the UK. Religious groups get upset when they don't get it all their own way... the act of and supporting of martyrdom is therefor justified?

As for the terrorists themselves, what makes you think religion had nothing to do with it? What makes you think religion has nothing to do with those who support them? With religion out of the equasion, you would not have non-religious people blowing themselves up on trains for a holy purpose.

 

[S.A.M.]

The poll results showing 400,000+ sympathisers to the 7/7 bombers in the UK was frightening. 40% of British Muslims also want sharia law implemented within the UK. Religious groups get upset when they don't get it all their own way... the act of and supporting of martyrdom is therefor justified?

As for the terrorists themselves, what makes you think religion had nothing to do with it? What makes you think religion has nothing to do with those who support them? With religion out of the equasion, you would not have non-religious people blowing themselves up on trains for a holy purpose.

What do you suppose can be a religious motivation for blowing oneself up?

 

[KennyJC]

Oh come on buddy! Why would you want to go do something like that? Of course people would get pissed off ! You're saying everything they believe and hold true is irrational. People aren't always rational.
Besides you going on the streets and saying that would be irrational. = /

Don't take me too literally there. It's not like I would walk out in the street with a sandwhich board saying "ATHEISTS R0X!! THEIST SUX!!". I mean speaking out against religion in the public domain in general... and the fact a person doing so would recieve abuse in this day and age is mystifying.

 

[hug-a-tree]

What do you suppose can be a religious motivation for blowing oneself up?

A ticket to heaven, I guess.

 

[S.A.M.]

Then why did the terrorists who claimed responsibility say this?

"It is time of revenge against the crusader and Zionist British government has come in response to the massacres committed in Iraq and Afghanistan"

 

[hug-a-tree]

Don't take me too literally there. It's not like I would walk out in the street with a sandwhich board saying "ATHEISTS R0X!! THEIST SUX!!". I mean speaking out against religion in the public domain in general... and the fact a person doing so would recieve abuse in this day and age is mystifying.

Some people don't live in our day of age. I'm not saying it's right that everyone has to think the same way as them. And it's a shame they don't care to know about other ways of life. Like some people still blame sicknesses they get are from sin. That's to bad.

 

[KennyJC]

What do you suppose can be a religious motivation for blowing oneself up?

Dedication to a persons faith, and sacrifice in order to protect it, or further it's cause somehow. That, and the however many virgins they get and the guarunteed special place in heaven.

The families of 'martyrs' actually recieve congratulations from neighbours and so fourth, it's seen as a positive thing no matter how many innocent people die.

 

[hug-a-tree]

Then why did the terrorists who claimed responsibility say this?

"It is time of revenge against the crusader and Zionist British government has come in response to the massacres committed in Iraq and Afghanistan"

I don't know why they said that. I always thought they blew themselfs up for holy reasons. Maybe i'm not right. There could be more to it.

 

[S.A.M.]

Dedication to a persons faith, and sacrifice in order to protect it, or further it's cause somehow. That, and the however many virgins they get and the guarunteed special place in heaven.

The families of 'martyrs' actually recieve congratulations from neighbours and so fourth, it's seen as a positive thing no matter how many innocent people die.

And yet the terrorists claimed it was an act of revenge against the massacres in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Did they lose their parents, brothers, sisters or children? Did they hold the UK responsible for sending troops and arms?

You are confusing their idea of afterlife with their motivation.

And they are congratulated by those who feel themselves similarly persecuted.

This is politics not religion. If Muslims could guarantee a seat in heaven by blowing themselves up, there wouldn't be 1.5 billion of them in the world.

 

[KennyJC]

Then why did the terrorists who claimed responsibility say this?

"It is time of revenge against the crusader and Zionist British government has come in response to the massacres committed in Iraq and Afghanistan"

Very selective of you to ignore the other things they said. But anyway, this quote you supplied (out of context), what does this have to do with people who are born and bred in britain? The Koran teaches brotherhood of Muslims, and violence against infidels. The infidels are the forces in Iraq and Afghanistan, and they see their "brothers" suffering... Hence they blow themselves up shouting 'God is great'.

They are only following the Koran.

 

[hug-a-tree]

Wow, what did the Americans do to them?

Then what was the reason for 9/11?

I think it was an afterlife motivation.

 

[S.A.M.]

Very selective of you to ignore the other things they said. But anyway, this quote you supplied (out of context), what does this have to do with people who are born and bred in britain? The Koran teaches brotherhood of Muslims, and violence against infidels. The infidels are the forces in Iraq and Afghanistan, and they see their "brothers" suffering... Hence they blow themselves up shouting 'God is great'.

They are only following the Koran.

I am the expert on the Quran here and you are talking rubbish.

Do you mean to say that the part about Iraq and Afghanistan is irrelevant?

But the part about religion is not?

The Hezbollah also does suicide bombings in Israel, is this to do with Lebanese massacres or a place in heaven?

 

[KennyJC]

I am the expert on the Quran here and you are talking rubbish.

It is me who is talking rubbish? You said this...

This is politics not religion

You told me that all the quotes RE infidels in the Koran were written at times of war. Muslims are at war with the west, so it is fittin that terrorists use the methods of fighting they are. Tell me how this goes against the Koran if you really are the expert, and not just being ignorant to the nasty parts of your 'holy' book.