Siddhartha
Registered Senior Member
It would be just another crack in the dam.
If life is found on mars...
- Thread starter Undecided
- Start date
This I posted in another thread, but it stands true in most any thread about the bible.
As a Creation Theorist, hell I guess that is about as good of a name / title as any, reading the bible as most call it has held my interest because of its scientific content and view point on our universe. What is so very simply stated in ancient languages is extremely difficult for most to comprehend. As an example, try to describe to me in any language that was in use two thousand years ago the launching of a space shuttle. They didn’t have the vocabulary. As the bible is about our past, present, and future the timeline of many passages becomes more difficult to discern. A most intriguing book to say the least.
In our research of possible “Signs in the Heavens” over the last two years I have seen signs that a war veteran can easily recognize. Based on that research we feel that Mars did have life on it and was recently destroyed. Life that was not there but to hang out there and to test us. The fallen angels, demons, BAD ET’s what ever you want to call them. We think that the War in the Heaven has sent a bunch of these losers down to the earth as it says. They sure as hell wouldn’t want this kind of information catching on, now would they?
As a Creation Theorist, hell I guess that is about as good of a name / title as any, reading the bible as most call it has held my interest because of its scientific content and view point on our universe. What is so very simply stated in ancient languages is extremely difficult for most to comprehend. As an example, try to describe to me in any language that was in use two thousand years ago the launching of a space shuttle. They didn’t have the vocabulary. As the bible is about our past, present, and future the timeline of many passages becomes more difficult to discern. A most intriguing book to say the least.
In our research of possible “Signs in the Heavens” over the last two years I have seen signs that a war veteran can easily recognize. Based on that research we feel that Mars did have life on it and was recently destroyed. Life that was not there but to hang out there and to test us. The fallen angels, demons, BAD ET’s what ever you want to call them. We think that the War in the Heaven has sent a bunch of these losers down to the earth as it says. They sure as hell wouldn’t want this kind of information catching on, now would they?
God had already lost control over Earth, and now you are saying God had lost control outside of Earth, too?craterchains (Norval said:
Yes, I agree. Christians believe what they do because they want to, not because of any proof or evidence, in fact it is belief in spite of lack of evidence (faith) that they value.
The idea of God is so amorphous that it can be imposed on any situation, and is thus valueless. If you were everywhere, you wouldn't need to move, if you knew everything, you wouldn't need to think, if you had complete control over everything, nothing would ever be out of control, and you would not have to do anything. Humans tend to see everything as human, we even name ships, and call robots he or she. So, it is perfectly natural to create the concept of a human-like creator, wrong, but natural.
There are other religions that would take this info. in stride, notably, some primitive shamanic traditions.
Read the book.
craterchains (Norval
Your assertion for us to read the book is not making a difference and is not assisting your position on the issue. If you are so certain of your stance, and since you seem to know the book like the back of your hand, do tell what is there to read there that would indicate that God told us about life outside Earth, and creation of those creatures outside the Earthly realm.
Your assertion for us to read the book is not making a difference and is not assisting your position on the issue. If you are so certain of your stance, and since you seem to know the book like the back of your hand, do tell what is there to read there that would indicate that God told us about life outside Earth, and creation of those creatures outside the Earthly realm.
Read the book. Then ask your questions about specific passages you find too difficult to figure out for yourself.
Neurocomp2003
Registered Senior Member
what book chapter page would you like us to read...cause i have read the bible before and to me it was alot of gibberous. Somethings i found useful but the majority not.
The 2 things I have in against believing a single god(alien) is that
1) he plays favorites
2) if god is suppose to respond to the prayer of everyone and if everyone
in a single 2nd prays/or seeks assurance that means god is answering to
?? billion people/second. How can a single entity answer such a magnitude of questions and prayers?? even if he does have angels working for him is it not his sole duty to be able to respond to everyone simultaneously?
The idea of polytheism is much more plausible to me but I would still prefer to believe in aliens then polytheism. Thought one can argue that they can be one and the same.
and also if god made us....why would he make the rest of the universe so large, all the stars so far away that we cannot reach as a young civilization yet. Why would he make all the various types of stars and matter? all the poisonous chemicals that can kill us. Whats the point of making a nebula...having supernovas. etc etc.
The 2 things I have in against believing a single god(alien) is that
1) he plays favorites
2) if god is suppose to respond to the prayer of everyone and if everyone
in a single 2nd prays/or seeks assurance that means god is answering to
?? billion people/second. How can a single entity answer such a magnitude of questions and prayers?? even if he does have angels working for him is it not his sole duty to be able to respond to everyone simultaneously?
The idea of polytheism is much more plausible to me but I would still prefer to believe in aliens then polytheism. Thought one can argue that they can be one and the same.
and also if god made us....why would he make the rest of the universe so large, all the stars so far away that we cannot reach as a young civilization yet. Why would he make all the various types of stars and matter? all the poisonous chemicals that can kill us. Whats the point of making a nebula...having supernovas. etc etc.
craterchains (Norval
The only thing I can logically deduct from your "read the book" assertion is that you are an ignorant person. You cannot develop your own argument; I don't even think you have one. I sadly believe that you think telling me to read the entire book is going to change something. You obviously have a reason for me to read the book and you must have a certain section one can read, otherwise what does the crucifixion have to do with bacteria on Mars?
The only thing I can logically deduct from your "read the book" assertion is that you are an ignorant person. You cannot develop your own argument; I don't even think you have one. I sadly believe that you think telling me to read the entire book is going to change something. You obviously have a reason for me to read the book and you must have a certain section one can read, otherwise what does the crucifixion have to do with bacteria on Mars?
If bacteria were found on mars, theists would probably claim they came from earth, blown there by asteroids. It would be trickier if their structure was totally different, like they were based on silicon, or they had no DNA, or completely different genetic codes.
If there were bacteria on mars, why have no larger life-forms evolved to eat it?
If there were bacteria on mars, why have no larger life-forms evolved to eat it?
Neurocomp2003
Registered Senior Member
maybe the ecosystem cannot sustain a larger organism? I mean put a human on mars and can this person breathe/live/eat? Dynamical systems theory
says that certain paths may choose to get to a state faster than others and maybe thats the path taken by earth and not mars.
says that certain paths may choose to get to a state faster than others and maybe thats the path taken by earth and not mars.
MEDICINE WOMAN
Well, thank ya, darlin! :-D
That's an interesting statement, the "eye of the beholder" thing, because it's the most reasonable statement I've ever heard from a theist. Maybe it's because your faith is new age enough to be more acceptable to the clear-thinking, but I definately appreciate your open-mindedness.
About the rest of that quote...I just don't know. If God truly exists, then you would, of course, need to change your scope to fully appreciate his presence. But the God of the Biblical stories does not tell us we need such a grand view. Rather, he tells us to blindly believe. He sends his son, in mortal form, to Earth to preach his message. How is that going to convince anybody? If God's image truly was meant to be seen in the whole of humanity, then he is a far different god than the one written about in the Bible.
I agree. Once we change our scope, we, as a society, will change how we "do" religion. God(s) will be greater, or more human. They will be technologically sound, or completely beyond the range of human hands. We might even be able to reach him with some fancy new communications device far into the future, who knows what organized religion will look like 2000 years from now?
What should definately die down is the intensity of our religions, simply because once we truly understand just how small we are compared to the rest of the hotel we're staying at, we will be a lot more humble, and a lot less Earth-centric. We can talk till we're blue in face about how big the universe is, but it's not until we can SHOW how big the universe is that people will fully accept the fact that we play absolutely ZERO role in it.
Well, if we don't want to believe one religion's interpretation, then why believe any? Theists bring that argument up quite a bit on this board, and it's a little irritating. Mainly because they stand like "Well, unless you are fluent in Aramic, you really don't know what the scriptures intended to say." But if you use that logic, who's to say at all what the scriptures intended to say? I trusted the translators to give me their best effort, but if you want to argue that "we can't know for sure," then what are you basing your belief on?
And don't buy into that "My religion is better than your religion" crap. Any scholar from any institution can say that their faith is more "in tune" with God than the guy's next to him. I haven't read a story from any religious text (granted, my only experience with anything Koran is in blurbs on the internet) that has shown me anything new about creation. No one story about creation from a religious standpoint has made me say "Well, yeah, that sounds about right."
Agreed, again. My guess is that all of this began innocently enough: Man began to see things that they could not explain, hence they started attributing these events to beings superior to themselves. And the stories were passed down through the years until eventually people who were power-hungry enough got their hands on them and began using them to squeeze money out of people. Ta-Daaaa! Relgion!
Nonononono. I'm not saying that debunking the gods of today's religion will deify the god you pray to, or any "real" god. I'm only saying what I said: God(s) of today's organized religons will be proven to be B.S.
I think that if we find life outside earth, be it microbe or intelligent, we will have taken one step further to discovering that life happens not under some grande scheme, but for far simpler reasons. Life happens...
....Because it can.
JD
Well, thank ya, darlin! :-D
That's an interesting statement, the "eye of the beholder" thing, because it's the most reasonable statement I've ever heard from a theist. Maybe it's because your faith is new age enough to be more acceptable to the clear-thinking, but I definately appreciate your open-mindedness.
About the rest of that quote...I just don't know. If God truly exists, then you would, of course, need to change your scope to fully appreciate his presence. But the God of the Biblical stories does not tell us we need such a grand view. Rather, he tells us to blindly believe. He sends his son, in mortal form, to Earth to preach his message. How is that going to convince anybody? If God's image truly was meant to be seen in the whole of humanity, then he is a far different god than the one written about in the Bible.
I agree. Once we change our scope, we, as a society, will change how we "do" religion. God(s) will be greater, or more human. They will be technologically sound, or completely beyond the range of human hands. We might even be able to reach him with some fancy new communications device far into the future, who knows what organized religion will look like 2000 years from now?
What should definately die down is the intensity of our religions, simply because once we truly understand just how small we are compared to the rest of the hotel we're staying at, we will be a lot more humble, and a lot less Earth-centric. We can talk till we're blue in face about how big the universe is, but it's not until we can SHOW how big the universe is that people will fully accept the fact that we play absolutely ZERO role in it.
Well, if we don't want to believe one religion's interpretation, then why believe any? Theists bring that argument up quite a bit on this board, and it's a little irritating. Mainly because they stand like "Well, unless you are fluent in Aramic, you really don't know what the scriptures intended to say." But if you use that logic, who's to say at all what the scriptures intended to say? I trusted the translators to give me their best effort, but if you want to argue that "we can't know for sure," then what are you basing your belief on?
And don't buy into that "My religion is better than your religion" crap. Any scholar from any institution can say that their faith is more "in tune" with God than the guy's next to him. I haven't read a story from any religious text (granted, my only experience with anything Koran is in blurbs on the internet) that has shown me anything new about creation. No one story about creation from a religious standpoint has made me say "Well, yeah, that sounds about right."
Agreed, again. My guess is that all of this began innocently enough: Man began to see things that they could not explain, hence they started attributing these events to beings superior to themselves. And the stories were passed down through the years until eventually people who were power-hungry enough got their hands on them and began using them to squeeze money out of people. Ta-Daaaa! Relgion!
Nonononono. I'm not saying that debunking the gods of today's religion will deify the god you pray to, or any "real" god. I'm only saying what I said: God(s) of today's organized religons will be proven to be B.S.
I think that if we find life outside earth, be it microbe or intelligent, we will have taken one step further to discovering that life happens not under some grande scheme, but for far simpler reasons. Life happens...
....Because it can.
JD
shrubby pegasus
Registered Senior Member
crater chains it seems to me that you must know the one "true interpretation of the bible. maybe you should enlighten all of us who are shrouded in ignorannce, especially all those different denominations that follow the book and have very different bases.
your absolutism is extremely arrogant as well as fool hardy. it essentially robs any your statements of any credibility whatsoever. maybe you should reread it without your self righteous attitude. READ THE BOOK
your absolutism is extremely arrogant as well as fool hardy. it essentially robs any your statements of any credibility whatsoever. maybe you should reread it without your self righteous attitude. READ THE BOOK
FieryIce said:
You may wish to believe this, but we both know that you are wrong.
shrubby pegasus
Registered Senior Member
seriously, evolution is very well accepted and has uncountable amounts of evidence in support of it. crater: if you want to observe it in action, simply start a bacterial culture and watch it grow over time. it wont take long to get through many generations exposing them to selective pressures. your end result will look very much different than the original bacteria. how can this be happening from something asexual other than evolution in action?! you got jipped on your education.
also, how do you explain dinosaurs and ohter fossils if the universe is only 7000 years old. you really need to get a better understanding of the universe we live in crater
also, how do you explain dinosaurs and ohter fossils if the universe is only 7000 years old. you really need to get a better understanding of the universe we live in crater
Bibles? Which one? Sorry, I don’t have any preferences. You obviously have a mind like a steel trap. It mangles everything that gets into it. You have misstated and twisted some information already given. When you get that all straightened out, let me know.
shrubby pegasus
Registered Senior Member
craterchains (Norval said:
this statement is as insightful as all of your other arugments: "read the book." do you have any thoughts of your own?
Crater: You appear to be a confused individual. To save any further problems I will recap the issue for you in simple format..
A) You made a post talking about research you had done, that has given rise to you thinking Mars was once inhabited by "fallen angels", "daemons", or "bad E.T's".
B) I asked you if you could cite some evidence, (from your research), that has given you reason to believe Mars was once inhabited by these "bad E.T's".
C) You then went into "braindead mode", and proceeded to post half-sentences of complete tripe, that were irrelevant to any questions or points made in this thread.
In short: You made a claim, people showed interest in your claims, and now you're running off with your tail between your legs, having answered not one of any questions your claims raised. Frankly, that is the behaviour of an idiot.
A) You made a post talking about research you had done, that has given rise to you thinking Mars was once inhabited by "fallen angels", "daemons", or "bad E.T's".
B) I asked you if you could cite some evidence, (from your research), that has given you reason to believe Mars was once inhabited by these "bad E.T's".
C) You then went into "braindead mode", and proceeded to post half-sentences of complete tripe, that were irrelevant to any questions or points made in this thread.
In short: You made a claim, people showed interest in your claims, and now you're running off with your tail between your legs, having answered not one of any questions your claims raised. Frankly, that is the behaviour of an idiot.