"If I am right, I go to heaven, if you are right, you die anyway."

[kx000]

Then it should be. The study of what people truly believe in. How many truly believe it is their right to lie?

 

[wynn]

What's real about it Ms. Atheist?

I guess that you, as a Mr. Wannabe Aspie, will never acknowledge it.

 

[lightgigantic]

I could very well be as dumb as a box of rocks, but that doesn't make the non-empirical basis for faith any more rational. It's still based on the authority of subjective non-reproducible states of mind which are notoriously unreliable.

If its not reproducible to you its based on faith (faith in persons who can reproduce it) , period.

 

[wynn]

If its not reproducible to you its based on faith (faith in persons who can reproduce it) , period.

Sure. And as long as we're talking about worldly things, this isn't really a problem.

One can learn physics even from a drunk or hostile physics teacher, for example.
Our lives generally do not depend on having the correct theoretical understanding of physics. Or biology, sociology, English grammar or whatever.


But it's different when those who claim to teach us about things that are about "who we really are" and "what is best for us" are drunk or hostile.
It's hard to take seriously the teachings on love from someone who hates you.

 

[lightgigantic]

I say you are wrong because science doesn't depend on authorities proclaiming something. It is backed up by observable evidence. This is true even if a person isn't educated enough to correctly interpret that evidence.

then if they can't penetrate the empirical basis of it, it remains for all intents and purposes non-empirical for them.

For instance just because the president's wife has a very simple empirical process for directly perceiving him in no way grants you the same capabilities (even though you may have better eyesight than her)

:shrug:

 

[lightgigantic]

Sure. And as long as we're talking about worldly things, this isn't really a problem.

One can learn physics even from a drunk or hostile physics teacher, for example.
Our lives generally do not depend on having the correct theoretical understanding of physics. Or biology, sociology, English grammar or whatever.

and if one doesn't have that understanding, its based on faith, period.

But it's different when those who claim to teach us about things that are about "who we really are" and "what is best for us" are drunk or hostile.
It's hard to take seriously the teachings on love from someone who hates you.

its different when the subject is dependent on personal relationship to the subject to be knowne.

For instance an openly inimical attitude to the president certainly prevents one from directly perceiving him

 

[wynn]

its different when the subject is dependent on personal relationship to the subject to be knowne.

As I've been saying.

For instance an openly inimical attitude to the president certainly prevents one from directly perceiving him

Sure.

But in the case with God, we ordinary people are supposed to be unconditionally friendly and accepting of people who claim to talk about God, regardless of how hostile these people are toward us.

An ordinary person (ie. one who does not have any personal revelation from God) has to depend on theists for all input on the topic of "God."

Theists are often hostile, and certainly do not invite trust and respect.

In effect, if one wishes to "know God," one has to let a group of people who don't care whether one lives or dies, dictate every aspect of one's life, unconditionally and instantly trust and respect them, regardless of how badly they treat one.

You don't see a problem with that?

 

[Captain Kremmen]

Why would you be friendly towards someone who is hostile to you?
Why not be compassionate towards them, or tolerant, or argumentative instead?

 

[wynn]

Why would you be friendly towards someone who is hostile to you?
Why not be compassionate towards them, or tolerant, or argumentative instead?

With theists??

The ones who claim to know God, and on whom we must depend for any and all input on the topic of "God"?