If god is superior to us, then why won't he make himself known to us?

[Yorda]

Tell me Yorda, when you pull up at a set of lights and look at the car next to you and see the driver there with his finger jammed up his nose to the point where only his knuckle is showing, do you think to yourself 'yet, that's evidence of God around me'?

yes.

If scientists witness a human lifting a car and throwing it one mile with their mind, they would believe.

of course, but with their limited belief they will never see such things. their belief is so small that the only thing it will manifest is a compass dial that moves 1 nanometer.

One problem: During Moses' era they did not have this technology. So your argument is irrelevent.

no, you don't get it. there was nothing technological about the ark of the covenant or the staff.

Oh, so Moses used his extrordinary telekinesis skills to part the sea. Well that explains it.

yeah, but without the staff his powers would probably not have been strong enough to part the sea.

How about raising people from the dead.

he was talking about spiritually dead people.

How about turning 5 loaves of bread into a gigantic 500 Lb. loaf of bread.

it's astrological.

This father and his entire family now believes Jesus is the Son of God because of this great miracle.

without belief he would have never seen the miracle: he would have never went near jesus, he would have just laughed at him.

The point is, not even the apostles could believe unless given evidence first.

thomas said that he wouldn't believe without evidence, but is that what he really believed? actually his belief was greater than his disbelief, and that's why jesus came to him.

you can't know what someone believes just by reading/hearing the words. only god knows.

They wouldn't have approached Jesus in the first place, or had any base of "belief," unless they first heard about how great he was and the miracles he performed from people around the town.

the thing is: without belief they would have never even heard of the miracles. just like scientists would have never heard of telepathy and telekinesis if they didn't believe a little.

A pillar of a cloud and a pillar of fire. Again, hard to belive Moses created these pillars with his incredible telekinesis skills.

the cloud pillar came from the ark of the covenant.

just like fire creates smoke, the ark of the covenant creates a cloud/fire pillar. nothing mysterious about that really.

 

[nds1]

Common sense is not necessarily logic. While they are often similar, logic is colder.

Common sense involves statements such as:

1) It is bad to murder people.
2) If I jump off this cliff, I will probably die.
3) If I smash my head into this wall, it will hurt

Notice a pattern here? These things are common sense because they only require one level of thinking.

Now let's look at the teachings of Jesus:

2 And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,
3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.
14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
KJV

Clearly the teachings above require logic to understand them. There is more than one level of thought being presented here.

Unfortunately "miracles" and logic do not mix.
One can not be logical / rational and believe in the miracles, as there is ALWAYS a more rational explanation.

There is not always a more rational explanation. Humans only have certain levels of abilities. If I saw a human (Jesus) make blind men see or raise men from the dead, and this human proclaimed to be the Son of God, no kidding I would believe him. There is no rationalization of making blind men see by spitting in their face, or raising men from the dead.

Miracles and logic do indeed mix.

Here is the logic:

If I see a man who claims to be the Son of God, and this man performs law-defying miracles such as making blind men see, turning water into wine, or raising men from the dead, then this man must be the Son of God because only through a God could someone produce such miracles.

Please provide evidence that such things do happen or have ever happened, without recourse to the Bible, with clear evidence that it is a nature-defying event rather than a more rational explanation.

I have no evidence, though I wish I did.

Define "genuine"?
Who is the one to differentiate the "genuine" vision from merely an hallucination?

I don't know.

 

[nds1]

he was talking about spiritually dead people.

Okay. So his buddy Lazarus wasn't real, it was just symbolic, right? So did any miracles really happen, or were they all symbolic?

without belief he would have never seen the miracle: he would have never went near jesus, he would have just laughed at him.

Yeah, but if he lived in China and wasn't exposed to rumors about Jesus he would have no basis of belief.

thomas said that he wouldn't believe without evidence, but is that what he really believed? actually his belief was greater than his disbelief, and that's why jesus came to him. you can't know what someone believes just by reading/hearing the words. only god knows.

It's pretty easy for you to say that nothing said in the bible is actually what the person meant. You can twist it any way you'd like.

For example let's say someone in the Bible said this:

"I hate John"

According to you, this could mean anything. It could actually mean "I love John," because only God knew what the person really meant.

Why would the Bible show Thomas's doubt if Thomas really didn't mean it?

the thing is: without belief they would have never even heard of the miracles."

Wrong. The only reason they heard about the miracles is because they lived around the area of Jesus. They had been hearing the vast rumours of Jesus performing miracles, and they thought to themselves: "What the hell, we might as well give it a shot." Now I'm sure zero blind men from China went to Jesus to get cured because guess what: There were no rumours of Jesus in China.

The rumours come first, then blind belief, then miracles.

Yorda, would you believe in Jesus if the bible didn't exist and no one ever told you about him? Of course not.

Also Yorda, why do you believe Jesus would have performed miracles at all (assuming Jesus existed)?