If God is evil

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

“ Originally Posted by StrangerInAStrangeLa
An evil god is a mad god. And a mad god is an evil god.

so it's evil to be mad? what if you're mad at someone who's abusing a child?

I was responding to someone who used the word in the old sense not meaning angry or upset but something akin to insane.

My two cents: If god is evil then I think we have to change our definition of what's good or evil. At minimum, change the definition of what constitutes an evil act.
Correct me if I'm wrong but conventional wisdom has it that an evil deed is subject to some kind of punitive measure from God. Well, right away there's a problem with that because such a God may differ from you in how evil is determined. IOW's, evil is good in the mind of a nefarious God.
Now if I was an evil God and I could not or would not make a person do what I wanted them to (some call it free will) then I would write bibles exactly the way they are written today. I don't think I have to replay God's body count or a multitude of all the dispicable acts committed in the Bibles of any religion that refers to such events or acts.
There is only one way out, and only one way to exonerate an evil God. Blame Satan. However one might have to admit that their Bibles were written by the Lord of Darkness (thought I'd throw that in there seeing how it's Halloween)

The Holy Babble says god repented of the evil it had intended. I forget where just now but could probably find it with Google.

I suppose the question is: What actions would the theist say "that's an evil action" to? I dunno, let's ask the theists...
Is it evil to make people cannibalize their friends and family?
Is it evil to provide one troops with young women captives for their own enjoyment?
Those two examples should suffice for now. The thing is that the theists here will say "yes" to the above. Having said yes to the above - yes, your god is evil. (biblical quotes provided if needed).
"But it's ok when god does it!!"

The Holy Babble has god doing many things theists would condemn humans for.
1111

 

[Simon Anders]

I suppose the question is: What actions would the theist say "that's an evil action" to? I dunno, let's ask the theists...

Is it evil to make people cannibalize their friends and family?

Is it evil to provide one troops with young women captives for their own enjoyment?

Those two examples should suffice for now. The thing is that the theists here will say "yes" to the above. Having said yes to the above - yes, your god is evil. (biblical quotes provided if needed).


"But it's ok when god does it!!"

Sort of like most governments, militaries, police........

Do as we say, but not as we do.

 

[SnakeLord]

The Holy Babble has god doing many things theists would condemn humans for.

Indeed.

Sort of like most governments, militaries, police........

Our governments, militaries and police are fallible, fallen, sinful human beings. Whatever is your point?

 

[Carcano]

An evil god is a mad god. And a mad god is an evil god.

Anger = Evil???

Hatred = Evil???

Is it possible to be hateful without being angry?

 

[Carcano]

The difference between an evil and a mad god being that an evil god might still be possible to please, but a mad one would be impossible to please.

Not even if you went along with the madness?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYLv9vnpxsk

 

[greenberg]

Anger = Evil???

Hatred = Evil???

Is it possible to be hateful without being angry?

By "mad", Stranger meant 'insane', as she explains above.

 

[greenberg]

Not even if you went along with the madness?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYLv9vnpxsk

If by "madness" you mean 'insanity' - no, as going along with insanity is impossible, in the sense that true insanity is unpredictable and so one would always be a step behind the insane entity, which could cause enough friction for the insane entity to doom you. Not to mention that by acting insane, one might truly become insane, in which case heaven and hell would not matter to one anymore.

As for going along with the angry - that might be possible, were it not that humans, if they are angry a lot, tend to become sick in the body and mind, and once sick enough, they couldn't be angry anymore. If being angry were the requirement for heaven, one eventually wouldn't be elligible for it anymore, unless one received a body and a mind that could endure constant anger.


Allright, some of these notions are really abstruse, but I suppose it's good to look into them, as they might fester in people's minds, more or less unnoticed but causing damage anyway.

 

[Captain Kremmen]

Would an evil God be able to create creatures less evil than himself?

 

[greenberg]

Would an evil God be able to create creatures less evil than himself?

Good question.
If omnipotent, then yes.

But then the next question is whether an evil god could be omnipotent.


This issue then points at another one: Whether the problem of God's potential evilness can be resolved in an abstract manner, simply using logic and common sense, without recourse to existing scriptures and doctrines about God.

 

[greenberg]

That said: your list of six options:
they seem like the more isolated options.

Sure, they are supposed to be isolated, if they are to be taken as guidelines for action.

One can also questions and explore with others -which you obviously know.

This would fall under "6. Investigating all by yourself, more or less ignoring existing scriptures and doctrines." "More or less ignoring existing scriptures and doctrines" accounts for more or less focused but not path-specific communication.

One can also follow some traditions' approaches to having a relationship with God and ask God about these issues.

Options 1, 2, 4 and 5 cover this.

 

[Simon Anders]

Our governments, militaries and police are fallible, fallen, sinful human beings. Whatever is your point?

I should have asked you the same question. I wasn't sure, but it seemed like you were pointing out a hypocrisy amongst theists in that their God (their authority) breaches the ethics he lays out for them. I responded by saying that this is true all over the place. In fact most people, secular or religious, seem to accept that our Authorities will act in ways we consider immoral, should we as individuals choose these actions, but that as Authorities, with all the burdens of that role, blah, blah, blah, we must turn a blind eye away or an 'understanding' eye toward.

Of course there are occasional outcries about specific cases that have 'gone too far', but everyone knows, depending on their level of denial, that Authorities are, right now, doing things we would consider immoral should we do them.

Most people seem to consider this par for the course.

 

[Simon Anders]

Would an evil God be able to create creatures less evil than himself?

It could give him pleasure.

 

[Simon Anders]

Sure, they are supposed to be isolated, if they are to be taken as guidelines for action.

I meant isolated as in the user of the guidelines is alone.

This would fall under "6. Investigating all by yourself, more or less ignoring existing scriptures and doctrines." "More or less ignoring existing scriptures and doctrines" accounts for more or less focused but not path-specific communication.

It seems to me some traditions have this as part of tradition.

But it any case it seems like prayer and dynamic interaction with teachers and peers and other interpersonal approaches were meant to be included in your guidelines.

I drop the point then.

 

[Mr. Hamtastic]

http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=1583284&postcount=1

This thread needs to be taken much further(the one I linked to) before this one(The one this is in) can be appropriately answered. Genocide is evil, in the eyes of some. It's just pragmatism, to others. It's the final solution to others, and is thus good. God, as the ultimate decider, gets to say what is good and what is evil about His choices of action. Those who are with him will declare it all good, those against will decry it as evil. How can one come to a conclusion about something so relative?

 

[Captain Kremmen]

Would an evil God be able to create creatures less evil than himself?

It could give him pleasure.

Yes, an evil God might be sadistic.
But why would God be evil?

Usually, people are wicked for temporary gain or selfish reasons.
A God would have no motive to be evil.

 

[Simon Anders]

Usually, people are wicked for temporary gain or selfish reasons.
A God would have no motive to be evil.

I really don't know how one could be sure of such a thing, mulling it over in the abstract.

Doing evil things seems to give some humans pleasure. Why not a God? Why can't a god be selfish? Who would have more right, especially from its perspective?

Perhaps there are a number of universes and we incarnated, to our misfortune, in one run by an evil God. This can happen in countries, why not at the universal level?

 

[greenberg]

Usually, people are wicked for temporary gain or selfish reasons.
A God would have no motive to be evil.

As noted before, an evil and an isane god have several things in common.
An isane god is, in effect, evil.

So the next question is - What if God is insane?

In which case, however, the same applies as I said in the OP.


We can go through all sorts of scary scenarios about an evil or insane God. But it remains that if our quest is to find out for sure what God's nature is, we have those five options as listed in the OP. Otherwise, dwelling on issues of God's insanity or evilness is a waste of time, or some twisted pleasure.

 

[Simon Anders]

Doesn't one have to, at some point either decide to rely on the judgment of others or ask oneself
Do I believe God is evil?

and then notice what the answer to that question is?

 

[greenberg]

Doesn't one have to, at some point either decide to rely on the judgment of others or ask oneself
Do I believe God is evil?

and then notice what the answer to that question is?

IMO, that depends on who one thinks one is.

 

[Simon Anders]

IMO, that depends on who one thinks one is.

Let me know
in what way
and why.

I start with a few options.

One notices one believes God is good.
If one is satisfied with this, that seems like the end of the issue, for now.

One notices one believes God is evil.
If one is satisfied with this - in terms of certainty -, that seems like the end of the issue, for now.

If one is not sure and wants to try to gain more information, then some of the directions you suggest may be helpful to some people.

However it seems important to me to check in and see what one believes, perhaps regularly.

If one focuses on 'how do I ascertain the truth' one may skip past a resolution that is already formed or in the process of forming, despite what one thinks ones methodology should be or how one should become certain.