If God is evil

G

greenberg

until the end of the world
Registered Senior Member
Allright, this is a topic that keeps coming up in different threads, and it's time we finally address it head-on:
God might be evil.


Here are some questions to structure the topic:


A: What are the sources of the idea that God is or might be evil?

For one, examining some mainstream fire and brimstone doctrines of Christianity, reveals that their idea of God is that God is basically evil. These doctrines posit, for example, that torturing living beings in hell for all eternity even just for thought crimes, is an act of truest parental love.
It is from this kind of Christianity that many of us got the notion that God might be or is evil.

Another common source of the idea that God is or might be evil is when we posit that this world (life on planet Earth) is all there is, and that reality is the way we usually see it to be. Namely, a brutal mixture of suffering and happiness, cut short by death.

Yet other sources of the idea that God is or might be evil may be scriptures and doctrines of other religions, philosophies, worldviews.



B: What are the potential implications for us if God indeed is or might be evil?

1. There might be no true happiness for us, ever.
2. There might be no meaning to our lives, and we are doomed to suffer for all eternity.
3. In order to find true happiness, it might be necessary to commit morally repugnant acts.
4. Various known scriptures that report about God and what God is like might be lies.

There could be more such potential implications.



C: Why is it relevant whether God indeed is or might be evil?

Because the potential implications as mentioned above under B are relevant for at least for some people.
Some people want true happiness (one that is beyond the strife of existence as we usually know it);
they want their lives to be meaningful;
they don't want to suffer forever;
they don't want to do things that they find are morally repugnant, nor do they think that they could be happy after having done things that they find are morally repugnant;
they already appreciate scriptures that report about God and what God is like, or hope to find solutions to their problems in those scriptures.

Someone who is content with material life, or who is a nihilist, is not concerned about whether God indeed is or might be evil.



D: What exactly is the problem?

The problem - at least for those concerned about whether God indeed is or might be evil - is:
1. How to find out whether God indeed is or might be evil?
2. What to do in the case that God indeed is evil?
3. What to do in the case that God indeed is good?



E: What are the potential solutions and their advantages and disadvantages?

1. Blind faith in those scriptures and doctrines that state that God is good, and acting in accord with the orders given in those scriptures.
Advantages: Instant faith, instant release of anxiety.
Disadvantages: Compromising one's integrity; absence of personal realization.

2. Blind faith in those scriptures and doctrines that state that God is evil, and acting in accord with the orders given in those scriptures.
Advantages: Instant faith, instant release of anxiety.
Disadvantages: Compromising one's integrity; absence of personal realization.

3. Forcibly dismissing the problem, pretending that it doesn't exist, deliberately setting oneself up for denial (and if one does that long enough, one forgets that it started off deliberately).
Advantages: Some release from anxiety.
Disadvantages: It only postpones the solving of the problem, so deliberate denial is an act of setting oneself up for more anxiety in the future.

4. Carefully investigating those scriptures and doctrines that state that God is good, and acting in accord with the orders given in those scriptures.
Advantages: A promising and tried path to find out the truth, and as such, a promise of release from anxiety.
Disadvantages: May take a lot of time and effort.

5. Carefully investigating those scriptures and doctrines that state that God is evil, and acting in accord with the orders given in those scriptures.
Advantages: A promising and tried path to find out the truth, and as such, a promise of release from anxiety.
Disadvantage: May take a lot of time and effort.

6. Investigating all by yourself, more or less ignoring existing scriptures and doctrines.
Advantages: Preserving one's current level of personal integrity.
Disadvantages: May take a lot of time and effort; no guarantee for success; isolation from established spiritual/religious groups and individuals and as such no consistent support and companionship on one's path; often being in the situation of one-against-all which is stressful.




I think it comes down to choosing and committing to one of these six options. In all likelihood, there is always going to be someone who will claim that one has chosen wrongly and that therefore, one will burn in hell for all eternity or is wasting one's life. There are always risks, no matter what one does. And one cannot really not do something, not even for a second.
 
Interesting topic, although I don't have much to say on the subject. I'll just watch for the time being :)
 
Many many times, God asked the Isrealites to plunder and kill. God has also taken part in killing people on many scales, including global.
 
if god is everywhere and everything and evil exists then yes, god is evil. evil is merely a transgression of law and god is law...created the law. i think god is both good and evil. it seems to me that the law is set up to always encourage the greater good, in that the consequences of abiding the law are good, and the consequences of transgressing it are bad. if the wages of sin, which is a transgression of the law, are death, then obviously evil seeks to destroy itself, which is good. so everything is really good ultimately and so that shows that the intentions of god are in our favor, that is, in favor of life and peace.
 
Lori_7 said:
if god is everywhere and everything and evil exists then yes, god is evil.
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Illogical.

Lori_7 said:
evil is merely a transgression of law and god is law...created the law. i think god is both good and evil.
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I agree with you to an extent. If God exists, I believe it is good, but does things that some would say was evil.

Morality is relative, that is why evil exists.


Lori_7 said:
it seems to me that the law is set up to always encourage the greater good, in that the consequences of abiding the law are good, and the consequences of transgressing it are bad. if the wages of sin, which is a transgression of the law, are death, then obviously evil seeks to destroy itself, which is good. so everything is really good ultimately and so that shows that the intentions of god are in our favor, that is, in favor of life and peace.
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I agree with most of this, but not that everything is really ultimately good.

An example of pure evil is someone who does evil for the enjoyment of not doing good.
 
Enmos said:
In other words, evil doesn't exist. And nor does good.
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Kinda.

Evil clearly exists in the extreme, we have many examples of people who lived who were. And good clearly exists in the extreme, we have many examples of people who lived who were.

Most people? Probably I would say not evil and not good.
 
Enmos said:
In other words, evil doesn't exist. And nor does good.
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What I was really trying to say was that morality is biased. One person's terrorist, is another's freedom fighter.

The essence of good and evil still exist, but no one is 100% right at judging.
 
jayleew said:
What I was really trying to say was that morality is biased. One person's terrorist, is another's freedom fighter.

The essence of good and evil still exist, but no one is 100% right at judging.
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Good and Evil are completely subjective concepts.
So nothing can be said to be truly evil, or truly good.
 
jayleew said:
Illogical.
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how's that illogical? it's simple math...



I agree with you to an extent. If God exists, I believe it is good, but does things that some would say was evil.

Morality is relative, that is why evil exists.
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morality is man-made bullshit. really, there is only law and intent.




I agree with most of this, but not that everything is really ultimately good.

An example of pure evil is someone who does evil for the enjoyment of not doing good.
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what i'm saying is that god's intentions are good and his means (his law) is perfect, and evil is a part of those means. i believe that right now we're all here to learn the difference, to learn the law and it's consequence, so evil is serving a good purpose. to give those willing to learn (intent) an education.
 
Lori_7 said:
what i'm saying is that god's intentions are good and his means (his law) is perfect, and evil is a part of those means. i believe that right now we're all here to learn the difference, to learn the law and it's consequence, so evil is serving a good purpose. to give those willing to learn (intent) an education.
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It's good to see that some people think like this. I wholeheartedly agree with what you say. If God exists, it exists in context of how you are describing. If Christianity would think like this, it might stand a chance of surviving. The only reason I do not believe in God is I have not presented with evidence. Perhaps if Christians would get their heads out of their butts and also not be lemmings, they could get somewhere....and just maybe present a more convincing argument to abandon reason.
 
Lori_7 said:
if the wages of sin, which is a transgression of the law, are death, then obviously evil seeks to destroy itself, which is good. so everything is really good ultimately and so that shows that the intentions of god are in our favor, that is, in favor of life and peace.
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What do you mean by "death" here? The destruction of some people's souls, or having them burn in hell for all eternity?
 
Mr. Hamstastic will appreciate this. I was walking down the street and suddenly the sky opened up and an angel of the Lord blew his mighty trumpet and thousands of angels came pouring out of the sky chanting some nonsense that only a biblical know it all would understand. I was terrified and I ran as fast as I could, then when I reached the safety of home I took a couple of qualudes and some prozac and it went away.

The moral of the revelation is there's no need to fear an evil God or a devil that just likes to party when you have qualudes and prozac. An eightball helps a lot too, just ask Mr. Fantastic.
 
greenberg said:
Allright, this is a topic that keeps coming up in different threads, and it's time we finally address it head-on:
God might be evil.
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Which God?

Considering a creator deity in general we have to recall the simple fact that before the introduction of modern medicine MOST human beings died before their first birthday.

And the inherent conditions of creation are even worse for the less intelligent animals...worse still for the insect world.
 
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The third possibility is that God is a madman.

The Chilean film director Alejandro Jodorowsky wanted to make a film back in the seventies starring Salvador Dali as the mad emperor of the galaxy!
 
Carcano said:
Which God?
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The "one and only true God", whichever one this might be, as this is yet to be found out according to the position laid out in the OP.
People generally have some idea of God, not necessarily specifically bound to a particular theistic or other doctrine; so from that perspective, the question is to figure out which doctrine speaks the truth about God, and what to do in the case that God is evil.
 
Carcano said:
The third possibility is that God is a madman.
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True. The difference between an evil and a mad god being that an evil god might still be possible to please (even if this meant committing morally repugnant acts), but a mad one would be impossible to please.
But it is difficult to draw a sharp line between evil and mad: an evil entity might - since it is, after all, evil - simply change its mind about whether it has been pleased or not, or change the rules midway - in effect not being any different than mad.
I think that presuming that an evil entity would still be honest and consistent with its own evil designs - I think such a presumption is in discord with that entity being evil.
 
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