if god can do anything...

S

supernova_smash

Registered Senior Member
Hehe, here is something to think about that a teacher asked one time: If God is all powerful and can do absolutely ANYTHING, can he make a rock so heavy that he is unable to life it? I know this is a paradox, but it's fun to think about, and leaves religious people without an answer (not that this is anything new).
 
Your statement...

Great quote, but your question has a flaw...

IF _______ THEN __________

IF [God can do anything] THEN [Rock so big/can't move it]

The problem lies in the first part of the arguement. By nature, there are many things that God cannot do. He cannot lie, sin, condratict himself, do evil, etc. So, no, God cannot to anything. But he sure could kick my butt.

I think that's how it works, anyway. Let me know.

armyboyjay
 
I believe it's Augustine

Frankly, I'm too lazy to look it up, but I think the paradox comes from Saint Augustine. This, along with the notion of the square circle, is a classic Catholic postulation of the limitations of God's omnipotence. In the one case, the possibility of impossibility is the paradox; in the other, terms which cancel each other out; square and circle represent two disparate concepts that cannot be identical, as such. The capability of God's inadequacy isn't applicable. To answer the conundrum is about as useful as killing oneself in order to demonstrate that you are (were) alive.

Consider, on the other hand, a similar concept. I have, before, advocated a model of the Universe which resembles the concepts of a computer program; God is the programmer, the data is His Knowledge, and the routines are His Will. Respecting Relativity, at least, the Universe is generally obliged to play by certain rules. As the routines run over and over again, the output is the Universe and its events. If you're familiar with Deep Thought in Adams' Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, you're halfway there.

Now, in terms of the stone: can you build a computer that accounts for everything in the Universe? Consider that, with multiple Cray supercomputers in the 80s and 90s (nor with G4 PowerMacs in the new millennium), scientists are unable to simulate a space shuttle flight with any reasonably useful accuracy. A video game, sure. But practical application? Jinkies, Shaggy .... ;) (You know, I bet Shaggy made a fortune in the 80s; some diet pills and Scooby Snax, and I bet you he could code like a demon.)

Or would such a computer constitute the whole of the Universe, anyway? Somebody, quickly: harness a practical application for Mandelbröt. Theorize, theorize, theorize ....

Likewise, would God have to devote a part of Himself to the creation of that stone so that it might be at least His equal? (Not even Jesus or the Holy Spirit have that status, by most postulations.)

I would reason that no, God could not make a stone too heavy to lift.

And on that note, I must digress: Armyboyjay ... with respect, sir ... who says God can't lie, cheat, steal, hump like a rabbit, or contradict Himself, among others? With the exception of the bit about humping, I think the rest of it is documented in the Bible at least. I would go so far as to state definitively that the least contradictory deities are those that keep their mouths shut. The mysterium still reigns supreme, for God is greater than that which can be conceived; another piece of classic, forgotten Catholic theology.

On second reading, I may have buzzed right past a note of sarcasm, but, having missed it the first time, I can sit here and doubt myself all night if I try. Nonetheless, I needed to pop off a line about God humping like a rabbit; quite badly, apparently ... :bugeye:

Thus I beg your pardon if I let the above digression stand. :D

thanx,
Tiassa :cool:
 
If God was truly omnipotent, He could make a rock that he couldn't lift, and could <i>also</i> lift it anyway if He chose to. How? I don't know, but I'm not God.

Total omnipotence means you have power over things like the structure of logic, so you can do logically contradictory things.

I'm not that keen on total omnipotence. I prefer near-omnipotence, limited by logic. But who am I to tell God what He cn and can't do? ;)
 
Originally posted by supernova_smash
Hehe, here is something to think about that a teacher asked one time: If God is all powerful and can do absolutely ANYTHING, can he make a rock so heavy that he is unable to life it? I know this is a paradox, but it's fun to think about, and leaves religious people without an answer (not that this is anything new).
Click to expand...

This is only a paradox to someone who doesn’t understand the mind of God.
Your first misunderstanding is that you see God and the rock as separate. The truth is that the rock is nothing but a transformation of the energy of God, known as prakriti, because He is the sum total of everything, He creates everything according to His will, by His will, so subsequently He is in everything and outside of everything. A crude example is, when we are dreaming, we can do anything we can imangine, but we in our waking consciousness, we are not affected by the action performed in a dream. So as far as the dream goes, we are both in it and outside of it.
If, while in the dream we decide to create a rock that we ourselves cannot lift, it would be quite possible, but it would not be real, it would only be an act.
So in short, if God wanted to create a rock so heavy, even He could not lift, He could most certainly act that scenario out, but the truth of the matter is, it would be an act, because the reality is God is everything.

Love.

Jan Ardena.
 
Re: Re: if god can do anything...

Originally posted by Jan Ardena


This is only a paradox to someone who doesn’t understand the mind of God.
Click to expand...

even if there is God(s), I do not think tht anyone understands its mind. you can only quess.
Bye!
 
Tiassa, I would agree with about one paragragh

of your post, like many others within the limits of your imagination you attempt to limit 'God' and here I mean the Universal Father- 'God' is something greater than infinity or put another way the concept of infinity limits 'God'. I know that in the creation 'God' Gave out near limitless amounts of power and personality "and 'God' was undiminished. this means that we all should perhaps reconsider our conceptualizations of the Universal Father. Next time I'll tell you or c/p something about the Finite God.:cool: Peace Amp
 
Concider this

Maybe... there is no god. Jesus's "reserection" could be faked by the christian finaticks of the Roman day.

It is a rather fun thing to think about though.
 
Concider this

oops, forgot one thing

If 'god' did create such a rock, and 'god' can do anything, then 'god' would be able to both lift the unliftable rock, and not be able to lift it.
 
God is only as powerful as one can imagine...

What? Your god can do infinity things?

Mine can do infinity plus 1, top that!
 
Originally posted by daktaklakpak
God is only as powerful as one can imagine...
What? Your god can do infinity things?
Mine can do infinity plus 1, top that.[/i]

God is that 1.
Because He is the Absolute Truth.
One without a second.

Love.

Jan Ardena.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Re: Re: if god can do anything...

Originally posted by Avatar
even if there is God(s), I do not think tht anyone understands its mind. you can only quess.
Bye

No need to guess, just read the relevant scripture, or better still, hear it from a devotee.

Love.

Jan Ardena.
Click to expand...
 
Ender, consider I personally don't believe

Jesus is 'The GOD-Universal Father- although he, being a son of 'God' is also a deity and divine in origin. I post that infinity limits 'God' because that is our concept of the endless, the forever and such but if you subtract infinity from infinity you get zero and IMHO 'God' is only partially discernible in infinite terms. I know this reads strangely but 'God' minus 'God' does not reduce 'God', 'God' remains unchanged. Here again I refer to the Universal Father.:D In my post, I wrote of the Finite God, this diety is evolving in to the Supreme Being and the lives-fruits of everyone who has lived and ever lived or will live contributes to its eventuation. :cool: This 'God' is different(has a personality too) from yet dependent upon the Universal Father, Eternal Son, and Infinite Spirit to come into being. This whole process is apart or the continuing will of the Universal Father and hints at what may be the ultimate outcome of all creation. :eek: Peace Amp
 
Jan Ardena, my understanding is ->

We were given the ability to think, reason, deduce, infer, cogitate
because 'God' did not want us to blindly follow just what somebody may tell us but to consider all relevant info ourselves-remember Waco- 'God' wants us to think for ourselves, to use our own free will, thats why it gave us free will and restrained its own omniscience- so as not to interfere with our volition- 'God' did this of its own volition and even doing such a radical act does not diminish 'God', but serves to show us how much we are loved.
:D Peace Amp
 
Avatar, as Tiassa points out in her post

,though not in the same words, there are paradoxs with omnipotence best explained by the statement ('God' being perfect in wisdom,knowledge and such) 'God' chooses not to do ungodly actions, I mean considering the absoluteness and ultimacy of omnipotence 'God' could indeed qualify disparate concepts,ie, it can make a Square-Circle, but 'God' would not be 'God' if it deigned to do those impossibilities such as doing evil, ceasing to exist, changing. Just as our thoughts and ideas fall woefully short of 'God', 'Gods' actions, injunctions, or will is always in perfect accord with its sovereignity as the ultimate-absolute. In fact, this absoluteness was a true limitation with respect to 'God' and creation is a way 'God' knew would free itself from such ultimacy. 'God' was all there was - as I've posted before - and 'Gods' reasons for doing so are its own since we won't totally understand until we meet with 'God' and converse in the fullness of time. But Avatar, there is at least one thing you can't do and that is be 'God' although you are commanded " to be perfect even as your Father in Heaven is perfect" and ya know that implies -to me at least- we have the capacity, are able to learn and live in such a way that we would begin to understand more about 'God', to begin to know 'God' is in us,to comprehend that we are existant in 'God'. I don't believe in a malicious 'God', it would,IMHO, continue to provide information about itself so that we could carry out that injunction and as we matured(a synonym of perfect) it would provide us more info as our understanding increased, so we(me at the least) can't use the excuse that we weren't told, more likely one probably didn't bother to look. :cool: peace Amp
 
I wasn't reffering to the christian god (everyone nowadays whenever hears the word "god" thinks of Jahve(sp) or Yeshua :(:mad: ) I was refferng more to suprem life force, with no conscience. it is in all. we all are gods. (some imbicils just don't realise tht or don't release their full potential;) )
Cheers!
 
blonde_cupid>> There's lots of things that we can do that we choose not to do. Why?
It's not because we can't do them.
Click to expand...

precisely:) , maybe we fear of ourselves, fear to know ourselves better, find the truth about us:confused:
someone is not letting us:D (refferning to "The Mind Parasytes" by Colin Wilson) when I read tht book I thought it was for real and got a bit scared;)

really duno, what do you think about this?
 
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