Having faith doesn't just reply to religeon, you have faith that your plane won't crash or that your daughter won't drive drunk or that your computer will work. Athiests make these decisions of faith everyday I don'y see why they don't just try diferent religeons because they do have faith........
wrong, all for one: when people speak of faith in normal terms, they are usually speaking of acceptable level of probability.
"I have faith in fred to pass his exams or I have faith in the pilot to fly the plane, as fred or the pilot have shown there skills before, so the probability is higher for them to succeed. it's faith/trust, Trust is merely the placing of reliance on someone/thing.
however when you refer to a god, then it's faith/belief, though the word is the same the meaning behind it is different, Faith is to believe as true with no logical proof or evidence.
In religion the two often go hand in hand, but they are not the same one is purely religious faith, the other just faith.
"I have faith in fred to pass his exams or I have faith in the pilot to fly the plane, as fred or the pilot have shown there skills before, so the probability is higher for them to succeed. it's faith/trust, Trust is merely the placing of reliance on someone/thing.
however when you refer to a god, then it's faith/belief, though the word is the same the meaning behind it is different, Faith is to believe as true with no logical proof or evidence.
In religion the two often go hand in hand, but they are not the same one is purely religious faith, the other just faith.
Living_Sacrafice
Registered Member
for christians, faith is "knowing" that all things will be alright in the end, that god is above all, and that if u trust in him all will be right in the end, that everything happens for a reason, and that god can change any bad thing and turn it into something good. even if its gained wisdom from past hardships, faith builds us up as christians and edifies our spirit, that we may do greater things in the eyes of god . its because we know the reality of god. we dont have to try believe, we KNOW for ourselves the reality of god. and his love for us. if we are in his will all things are possible
what lunacy is this!, roflmao.c20H25N3o said:
you were never an atheist, maybe an agnostic, but never an atheist.
but thanks for the laugh, it cheered me up no end , thanks again.
roflmao, you great, you should be on stage, your so funny.c20H25N3o said:
the experience was probably, an hallucination, from the L.S.D. you were taking, that is what your name means right. and you never had an atheist view in the first place.c20H25N3o said:
even if you had'nt been on drugs at the time, some kind of truamatic episode happened to you, perhaps a schizoid embolism caused by past abuse.c20H25N3o said:
I know someone who got hit on the head, just slightly, and two weeks later was ill with concussion, so you see you could have done, something to yourself days/weeks/years before and it only manifested it's self at that moment.
and where is this done, may I ask.c20H25N3o said:
could you supply a reference, thank you.
agreed, you cast out the illogical and the unreasonable, until your left with the only possible reasoning, that is the scientific way. .c20H25N3o said:
exactly..c20H25N3o said:
the only ones that get disregarded, are those that can not possibly fit, the unreasonable, the illogical, the irrational.c20H25N3o said:
c20H25N3o said:
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and thus why you kill.Living_Sacrafice said:
audible: I said a similar thing earlier, I surpose the religious think it's the only way to make them look like their on the right track, a real atheist would never become so delusional, would he.
Living_Sacrafice
Registered Member
you athiests are funny, its not that theres no evidence of god, there is tuns, lots of it everywhere, its just that u DONT WANT TO BELIEVE. u think u have it all in ur puny minds, but u have to realise that i fight for a cause greater than myself, u are caught up in ur selfish ways, self-indulgence, u are caught up in materialistic things, the ways of this world, u are content with what u have, you dont want to change, so u deny god. you are blinded, caught up in your pride, u have to have it all in your head, but god is soo much more than anything we as humans can comprehend. christianity is a relationship not a religeon, its not about works in order to gain eternal life in heaven. its gods gift to us. he accepts us as we are.
some scientists, imean they say we evolved from apes, and that
the universe came from a bigbang, which came from nothing,
which goes against the laws of physics, every action has an equal and opposite reaction
so therefore every reaction cames from an equal and opposite action
how can a big bang be a reaction of nothing? nothing caused it, there is no action to
cause the big bang. does that make sence
thay say we evolved from apes, we arnt still evolving are we,
are theere any half apes half humans walking around? or any superhumans? there SO called proof of this
is a tiny fraction of a skull they have, which is so called to "be millions of years old"
from this fraction they have constructed an apeman skull. pfft.
we are more ginetically incomon to pigs,
this world is soo aamazing and sophisticated, imean everything u can think of, is made up
of atoms and molecules, which fit together in perfect harmony, life is truly beutifull
when u look at nature you see beuty,our earth is positioned just in the exact right spot
in our galaxy to sustain human life. YET the most AmAzing thing out of all this is US
HUman beings,We HAVE SOO MUCH POTENTIAL, to learn, to grow, to love, we have feelings,
emotions, a concience. anyone of those things itself is the most amazing thing there is.
to be honest its illogical to believe that there is no god
god is the only logical explanation for us
He loves us, life is beutiful, god is life, we are from him.
we have to take teh first step in seeking god, u cant prove god isnt real.
but ucan prove his reality if u want to. if u take the first step out and try to find god
and put away your pride, trust me if you look hardenough u will find him.
some scientists, imean they say we evolved from apes, and that
the universe came from a bigbang, which came from nothing,
which goes against the laws of physics, every action has an equal and opposite reaction
so therefore every reaction cames from an equal and opposite action
how can a big bang be a reaction of nothing? nothing caused it, there is no action to
cause the big bang. does that make sence
thay say we evolved from apes, we arnt still evolving are we,
are theere any half apes half humans walking around? or any superhumans? there SO called proof of this
is a tiny fraction of a skull they have, which is so called to "be millions of years old"
from this fraction they have constructed an apeman skull. pfft.
we are more ginetically incomon to pigs,
this world is soo aamazing and sophisticated, imean everything u can think of, is made up
of atoms and molecules, which fit together in perfect harmony, life is truly beutifull
when u look at nature you see beuty,our earth is positioned just in the exact right spot
in our galaxy to sustain human life. YET the most AmAzing thing out of all this is US
HUman beings,We HAVE SOO MUCH POTENTIAL, to learn, to grow, to love, we have feelings,
emotions, a concience. anyone of those things itself is the most amazing thing there is.
to be honest its illogical to believe that there is no god
god is the only logical explanation for us
He loves us, life is beutiful, god is life, we are from him.
we have to take teh first step in seeking god, u cant prove god isnt real.
but ucan prove his reality if u want to. if u take the first step out and try to find god
and put away your pride, trust me if you look hardenough u will find him.
an atheist, does no deny or disbelieve the existence of a god, he simply has no believe in one, to deny a thing you must first believe a thing.
goto an atheist website for the definition of an atheist, the dictionary is incorrect.
as I said earlier also, it is an impossiblity, you can become an atheist from religious background, but not the other way round, becuase your asking yourself to throw away all rationality, and the only way that would happen is, if you became irrational, a blow to the head, a schizoid embolism as audible said, etcetera.
so yes you could say it till you blue in the face, and just like you god it wont be believed.
and in all honesty, you cant take anything a religious person says seriously, as it all comes from their imagination.( you always work on that premise)
goto an atheist website for the definition of an atheist, the dictionary is incorrect.
as I said earlier also, it is an impossiblity, you can become an atheist from religious background, but not the other way round, becuase your asking yourself to throw away all rationality, and the only way that would happen is, if you became irrational, a blow to the head, a schizoid embolism as audible said, etcetera.
so yes you could say it till you blue in the face, and just like you god it wont be believed.
and in all honesty, you cant take anything a religious person says seriously, as it all comes from their imagination.( you always work on that premise)
Living_Sacrafice
Registered Member
i like this verse ... ephesians 6:12
for our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly relms
thats what i meant when i said "that i fight for a cause greater than myself"
i fight for the salvasion of souls, that they may be with me when i enter heaven
my purpose for life is to have intimacy with god, and love people, love is an expression of god and by loving people for who they are, they might see the reflection of gods glory on me, to seek god and find salvasion
for our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly relms
thats what i meant when i said "that i fight for a cause greater than myself"
i fight for the salvasion of souls, that they may be with me when i enter heaven
my purpose for life is to have intimacy with god, and love people, love is an expression of god and by loving people for who they are, they might see the reflection of gods glory on me, to seek god and find salvasion
Living_Sacrafice
Registered Member
its the other way round lol, its all in your mind, your blinded to see the true extent of what i see. you cant grasp everything, you cant see out of the box in ur mind. the spiritual world is more real than this world, u know everything u see on tv like all the supernatural horrors and stuff, its all based on some reality. and its real. i know the difference of reality and imaginary, ive seen miracles happen infront of me. i have heard demons. i have felt the spirit of god on me. i have seen demons cast out of people. i have seen god do amazing things, and he helps me all the time with little things that i ask for. he actually answers my prayrs and shows me things, ive prayed for people and they got healed, ive had relevelations and words of knowledge for people that god has given me . he builds me up as a man of god. there is soo much more to this world than selfindulgance . what conclusion will u come to at the end of ur life, when u realise your whole life living has just been about yourself and what you can get. i pray that your eyes be opened.
I read the first ten pages (as much as it allows) on the website and i'm definatly gonna buy the book, it has been a good read so far.
To deny something does not mean that you had to believe in it in the first place which is what you posted. You can flatly deny what is claimed by others without having ever contemplated the idea yourself objectively. But that is beside the point ...
The atheists outlook is 'There is no evidence to support any such deity therefore the argument is null and void, nothing further to discuss. All such talk is the work of the religious man's imagination.'
Unfortunately (and we see this many times on this forum), the atheist 'tells' the theist that the theists 'strongly held' convictions are the result of delusion.
No theist can argue against this accusation because it can only ever break down to a 'no im not, yes you are' pantomime.
I think the best we can all hope for is to just understand one another's standpoint and help eachother out when we can without predudice.
All I will say is 'If you dont believe in the idea of God/s and so on, I am not sure why you would need to buy a book to affirm your non belief. Surely you would be better advised to spend the money on progressing modern society?'
peace
c20
regarding this book I have'nt read it, I dont intend to read it, I wont concider buying it either, it would be futile as I would be reading something I always believed to be true, I need no confirmation, thus why, I personal put myself, and most of my money, into helping my fellow man.
I need no deitys or books to guide me to be morally correct.
the reason I come to this forum is to try and fathom the religious person haphazard mind, which seems an extreme quandary, it is a wonder to me how they can actually run their everyday lifes, so as for understanding each others standpoint, I believe this is an impossibility at the moment.
when religion is irradicated from society, then we will be able to converse on an even keel.
and before you say it, I dont thing, I'm superior, I just feel sad that people such as yourself, have no pride in your own, physical and mental abilitys, that you have to find solice in an imaginary thing, I not superior, your just lacking something.
I need no deitys or books to guide me to be morally correct.
the reason I come to this forum is to try and fathom the religious person haphazard mind, which seems an extreme quandary, it is a wonder to me how they can actually run their everyday lifes, so as for understanding each others standpoint, I believe this is an impossibility at the moment.
when religion is irradicated from society, then we will be able to converse on an even keel.
and before you say it, I dont thing, I'm superior, I just feel sad that people such as yourself, have no pride in your own, physical and mental abilitys, that you have to find solice in an imaginary thing, I not superior, your just lacking something.
geeser said:
But you are wrong. I am a highly respected programmer in my field, a skill I began developing since the age of 7. I am proud of what I have achieved in this area and proud of the education I have passed on to others in this area . I am proud of what I have achieved raising 4 beautiful kids. I am proud of the way I have handled all kinds of situations. I am not 'lacking something' as you put it.
But like I have said, You view my 'witness' to God as a product of my imagination. I tell you that i have the intelligence to discern between imaginings and revelation but you will insist it is all imaginings. It must be imaginings according to your world view because in your world view God is a pink unicorn i.e. fiction. Let's not do the 'your delusional / no i'm not' pantomime. It is not productive.
I really am not lacking anything. I am actually in a very fortunate position so why do you take it upon yourself to feel 'sad' for me? Do you actually care about me in a friendship kind of way?
Edit: The knowledge revealed to me about God through the Holy Spirit only adds to what I am. It does not 'make up' for what I lack. The only thing I felt I lacked before my experience was the answer to the question 'Does something out there beyond my usual perceptions exist.' - The truth is that had I not felt any presence (which in all honesty was what I expected), I would have accepted the answer and been content. The truth was a real shocker but I am glad I did not reject the answers presented to me because it would go against my very ethos to do so.
peace
c20
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I'm not saying I'm right or your right, I would like to understand, how when I studied god/religion, I saw the errors and you dont.
you say your a programmer, lets say you program a computer with A.I.
and during it's course of evolution, it becomes self aware.
how do you explain the god concept to it?, as it would only see it as illogical, you could never inform it the you believed in the concept, as it would consider, you lacking in some respects, regardless of how high your intelligence quotient.
you are asking me, and you would be asking it, to believe you with out any concrete evidence.
it would have to, as have I, put it down to your imagination.
you may be very clever, very rich, and have a high IQ, but you still lack rationality.
the knowledge I gain through life, adds to what I am also , but no deity is required.
I care, about all humanity, so yes I am concerned about religion clouding the heads of what could be lovely people, as sometimes it's to the detriment of others, Ie suicide bombers, religious zealots, like jimmy jones and david koresh.
I long for the day people wise up.
you say your a programmer, lets say you program a computer with A.I.
and during it's course of evolution, it becomes self aware.
how do you explain the god concept to it?, as it would only see it as illogical, you could never inform it the you believed in the concept, as it would consider, you lacking in some respects, regardless of how high your intelligence quotient.
you are asking me, and you would be asking it, to believe you with out any concrete evidence.
it would have to, as have I, put it down to your imagination.
you may be very clever, very rich, and have a high IQ, but you still lack rationality.
the knowledge I gain through life, adds to what I am also , but no deity is required.
I care, about all humanity, so yes I am concerned about religion clouding the heads of what could be lovely people, as sometimes it's to the detriment of others, Ie suicide bombers, religious zealots, like jimmy jones and david koresh.
I long for the day people wise up.
If you made a computer self aware it would understand the religous concept, only too well, it would also understand that it cannot go to heaven because i don't think (and niether woult IT) heaven is a place for computers, it would make it pissed off i would imagine.
You would probably have to program the computer with a religous belief of its own so that "human heaven" is a ridiculous concept while " computer heaven" is a reasonable and logical concept, the computer will then be a theist but would consider humans the same way humans consider animals.
You would probably have to program the computer with a religous belief of its own so that "human heaven" is a ridiculous concept while " computer heaven" is a reasonable and logical concept, the computer will then be a theist but would consider humans the same way humans consider animals.
geeser said:
Let's me just set something straight. I didn't study religion. The experience happened and was all 'news to me'. I picked up a bible after the event and found that it tallied with what had happened to me. Prior to that I had nothing to do with any forms of religion.
geeser said:
Agreed.
This is a distinct possibility.
I am in the uncanny position of being able to see your thinking and agree with you from your perspective but as I have said before 'my inner witness cannot deny what I experienced.' . I am as discerning as the next man and I discern what happened to me as a 'real' encounter with a higher power, supreme being call it what you will. The experience forms part of my reality now to the extent where I cannot deny it. I also can discern between what is my imaginings and what is real.
Fair enough. I'm not waving a stick at anyone telling them what is required. I didn't think a deity was required either and that didn't stop what happened to me.
I think you are right to challenge bad religion. I just dont think that my beliefs pose a threat to anyone. Challenge me on that though if you will.
Perhaps its a case of 'grow up' rather than wise up, but that statement could apply to all.
peace
c20
c20H25N3o said:
There is a science, a new science called neurotheology, which deals with spiritual enlightment and the brain, you may find it interesting, i have a link here:
http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/neuro/neuronewswk.htm
in this an "experience" is mentioned, after reading the article would you tell me what you think and if the experience mentioned was the same as yours.
:m:
The experience happened and was all 'news to me'. I picked up a bible after the event and found that it tallied with what had happened to me.
Could you explain in detail that so-called experience, how it tallies with the bible, and how you know for a fact it was not your imagination?
Could you explain in detail that so-called experience, how it tallies with the bible, and how you know for a fact it was not your imagination?
GodlessEvil said:
Article said:
I have experienced similiar things. Sounds very similiar to a state you can reach after inhaling copious amounts of nitrous oxide to name but a few of the drugs that can perform these tricks on the brain box. I am glad you raised the point because the whole sense of 'I,me and mine' disappearing is very common with drug induced states ,however the experience I had was not like this. 'I' was very much 'there' - nothing was taken from me mentally. I was a witness to something outside of 'I' . If the experience had been in anyway similiar to any kind of drug induced experience I would have written it off as bull crap and my conclusions would have been vastly different to what they are today.
Excellent read nonetheless
peace
c20