I did not think that the fish was magically placed there to eat the weeds. The purpose of that fish is to eat the weeds, which is why weeds taste good to it. There is also other water plants it could be eating so it is not choosing the weeds just because there is nothing else. In fact, by eating the weeds it helps to maintain the health of the other plants. The purpose of the fish that it evolved from was not to eat the weeds but something else. When it is no longer needed to eat the weeds I evolved to suit the new purpose. Anyway, this fish is just an example that came to mind. It is not because this fish that I think human has a purpose.
I purposely post this
- Thread starter Pammy
- Start date
I did not think that the fish was magically placed there to eat the weeds. The purpose of that fish is to eat the weeds, which is why weeds taste good to it. There is also other water plants it could be eating so it is not choosing the weeds just because there is nothing else. In fact, by eating the weeds it helps to maintain the health of the other plants. The purpose of the fish that it evolved from was not to eat the weeds but something else. When it is no longer needed to eat the weeds I evolved to suit the new purpose. Anyway, this fish is just an example that came to mind. It is not because this fish that I think human has a purpose.
Perhaps you are right in a way. Maybe because we have not served our purpose (in no way do I imply our purpose is to serve God, think open minded please) that's why more and more people are born with "time bomb minds" as a way to kill us off so we will not upset the balance.
I see your example now. But to take it to a global scale, the whole ecology cycle is not a static thing, it constantly changes. This is called biofeedback I believe...one thing in the whole food chain changes, and this ripples down, changing other things. We see much of this as something that has existed that way, but our limited scope only makes it appear that way. In reality, nature ebbs and flows, constantly adjusting to the variables of life. We just see the current pattern, and try to make sense of why it's there.
So in a sense, there's purpose for everything, but those purposes can change, and they aren't set from an outside source, they are the least resistance...if the fish eats these weeds and not those, the pond tends to do well, and support the life around it. If not, then life suffers, and the fish wont survive to pass on its reluctance to eat that weed.
I hope that made some sense...
And to add humans into this equation, we either learn to live with the world, or somehow we'll hurt ourselves, if we haven't gone too far down that road already.
So in a sense, there's purpose for everything, but those purposes can change, and they aren't set from an outside source, they are the least resistance...if the fish eats these weeds and not those, the pond tends to do well, and support the life around it. If not, then life suffers, and the fish wont survive to pass on its reluctance to eat that weed.
I hope that made some sense...
And to add humans into this equation, we either learn to live with the world, or somehow we'll hurt ourselves, if we haven't gone too far down that road already.
Originally posted by Jaxom
I see your example now. But to take it to a global scale, the whole ecology cycle is not a static thing, it constantly changes. This is called biofeedback I believe...one thing in the whole food chain changes, and this ripples down, changing other things. We see much of this as something that has existed that way, but our limited scope only makes it appear that way. In reality, nature ebbs and flows, constantly adjusting to the variables of life. We just see the current pattern, and try to make sense of why it's there.
So in a sense, there's purpose for everything, but those purposes can change, and they aren't set from an outside source, they are the least resistance...if the fish eats these weeds and not those, the pond tends to do well, and support the life around it. If not, then life suffers, and the fish wont survive to pass on its reluctance to eat that weed.
I hope that made some sense...
And to add humans into this equation, we either learn to live with the world, or somehow we'll hurt ourselves, if we haven't gone too far down that road already.
Yes that makes sense. And I also agree we have to learn to live with the world. But that still makes me wonder what our purpose is..
Pammy,
You cannot possibly understand purpose in isolation. Purpose can only be assigned by something or someone.
From Webster: 1 a : something set up as an object or end to be attained.
To understand a particular purpose it will be necessary to question the originator of the purpose.
For example if an alien with eight legs and no discernable body came across a chair designed for a human and they had never seen a human then would they understand the purpose of the chair? I'm sure you could probably devise a better example but I hope you see my point.
To state that everything on the planet has a purpose then you must also know that something or someone established and defined the purposes for everything. Do you claim such knowledge?
However, you should also consider the possibility that for many things there is no purpose. For example -
What is the purpose of the human appendix?
What was the purpose of dinosaurs now that they are extinct?
What is the purpose of a newborn child that dies a few minutes after birth?
etc.
etc.
Now you could argue that the purposes of such things are just not apparent to us and that something much wiser exists or existed that defined purposes for all those things.
Or a more credible explanation is that there is simply no purpose for some things or that whatever purpose there was no longer exists. Such conclusions are entirely consistent with processes that have an evolutionary nature. For example the electronic vacuum tube no longer has any purpose since there are no pieces of equipment that need such antiques.
Such leftovers and extinct objects are also massively abundant in the field of biology, and anthropology depends heavily on the masses of data revealed by things that no longer have purpose. If you have or ever have the chance of studying the metabolic pathways of the human living cell in detail you will see the many redundant (purposeless) and overlapping processes that create immense inefficiency and all because, it is believed, of past evolutionary mutations and adaptations.
So with so many things having no apparent purpose, or rather no longer having purpose can we be sure that anything at a higher level, e.g. current living things have purpose? Evolution indicates that all living things came from much simpler organisms and abiogenesis indicates that living things arose from even simpler non-living things.
So did something really have an intention and assigned a purpose to every living thing and variation, extinct or otherwise? Or did everything we know arise from simply the interaction of the laws of nature as indicated by the massive evidence provided by evolutionary processes?
If the later case is true as seems most likely in light of the evidence then you and I and every living thing have no intended purpose and to search for one is pointless.
If there is a purpose to your life then, as I said at the outset it must be assigned by something or someone. Who better to assign you a purpose than yourself? Don't look for one, create your own instead.
You cannot possibly understand purpose in isolation. Purpose can only be assigned by something or someone.
From Webster: 1 a : something set up as an object or end to be attained.
To understand a particular purpose it will be necessary to question the originator of the purpose.
For example if an alien with eight legs and no discernable body came across a chair designed for a human and they had never seen a human then would they understand the purpose of the chair? I'm sure you could probably devise a better example but I hope you see my point.
To state that everything on the planet has a purpose then you must also know that something or someone established and defined the purposes for everything. Do you claim such knowledge?
However, you should also consider the possibility that for many things there is no purpose. For example -
What is the purpose of the human appendix?
What was the purpose of dinosaurs now that they are extinct?
What is the purpose of a newborn child that dies a few minutes after birth?
etc.
etc.
Now you could argue that the purposes of such things are just not apparent to us and that something much wiser exists or existed that defined purposes for all those things.
Or a more credible explanation is that there is simply no purpose for some things or that whatever purpose there was no longer exists. Such conclusions are entirely consistent with processes that have an evolutionary nature. For example the electronic vacuum tube no longer has any purpose since there are no pieces of equipment that need such antiques.
Such leftovers and extinct objects are also massively abundant in the field of biology, and anthropology depends heavily on the masses of data revealed by things that no longer have purpose. If you have or ever have the chance of studying the metabolic pathways of the human living cell in detail you will see the many redundant (purposeless) and overlapping processes that create immense inefficiency and all because, it is believed, of past evolutionary mutations and adaptations.
So with so many things having no apparent purpose, or rather no longer having purpose can we be sure that anything at a higher level, e.g. current living things have purpose? Evolution indicates that all living things came from much simpler organisms and abiogenesis indicates that living things arose from even simpler non-living things.
So did something really have an intention and assigned a purpose to every living thing and variation, extinct or otherwise? Or did everything we know arise from simply the interaction of the laws of nature as indicated by the massive evidence provided by evolutionary processes?
If the later case is true as seems most likely in light of the evidence then you and I and every living thing have no intended purpose and to search for one is pointless.
If there is a purpose to your life then, as I said at the outset it must be assigned by something or someone. Who better to assign you a purpose than yourself? Don't look for one, create your own instead.
Exactly how do you know what animals think then?
how do you know what they say?
We have only been out of the caves for the last 10,000 years,and we didnt even exist 3 million years ago,
yet the universe is 15 billion (15,000,000,000) years old
so whats going on?
the dinosaurs were here for ages,it was only an asteroid/meteorite that killed them,if it wasnt for the asteroid we probably wouldnt be here,cos the asteroid could have changed things.
You see you look at the world around you and cos youve only been here for a few years its hard to comprehend the circumstances of what went before your birth.
Its not that everything is here for a reason,but its:
Everything that is here now,is here because(and only because) of what has gone before.
Lets say i went back in time,and decided to kill hitler as a child,now thats heavy stuff and some would say that would be a good thing,unfortunatly this action would lead to whole new written conseqences,alot of you wouldnt have been born,
i know i wouldnt have because my grandparents would not have met,we could further say that there are many many universes with different versions of the same earth within them,and thats here you skip to to prevent a paradox.
Thing is though,as soon as i mentioned many worlds,that means
infinite possibility within the laws of physics,
we could argue that these networks of universes are a storehouse of information,and this multiverse is gods brain if you like.
So involving a little theoretical physics we could say the purpose
of the entire universe is a information center so that god can make a better universe,next time around by learning/seeing whats going on in the multicomplex many worlds.
If god exists outside the influence of this realm of physics,then maybe god has already created many perfected universes,by learning from the others.
Of coarse im being very theoretical,and its quiet unprovable,which lands you (as always) back to square one.
Yes I agree purpose can only be assigned by something or someone. However, I believe it is possible to understand purpose in isolation. Imagine if one day you are told to stand at the gate of a factory without a reason. As you stand there you realise that your presence could be to prevent wild dogs from entering the factory because they do not dare to go near humans. Whether or not that reasoning is correct is not important. What is important is that it is possible that the reasoning could be correct.
Yes to be 100% sure that our reasoning is correct we need to ask the originator of the purpose. However if it is so easy I would have got the answer by now. Therefore since we cannot do that, we can only discuss it. I do not claim I have the answer or that someone may have the answer.
The aliens may not see the purpose of the chair but that does not mean the chair has no purpose.
Obviously no.
YesI agree it is possible.
"What is the purpose of the human appendix?"
Like the aliens the fact that we do not know does not mean that it has no purpose. It is just possible that is has/hos no purpose.
"What was the purpose of dinosaurs now that they are extinct?"
As a whole, to eat the plants and recycle plant materials back to the system.
"What is the purpose of a newborn child that dies a few minutes after birth?"
The same purpose as an adult human being. The fact he/she dies does not change its purpose.
"Now you could argue that the purposes of such things are just not apparent to us and that something much wiser exists or existed that defined purposes for all those things."
I was not going to say that. Only half. It is not necessary a being at all that gave us that purpose. It could be nature or some force. The purpose of God could be to guide us in life in the system.
"Or a more credible explanation is that there is simply no purpose for some things or that whatever purpose there was no longer exists. Such conclusions are entirely consistent with processes that have an evolutionary nature. For example the electronic vacuum tube no longer has any purpose since there are no pieces of equipment that need such antiques."
It may not be able to serve its purpose now, but the vacuum tube do have its purpose.
"Evolution indicates that all living things came from much simpler organisms and abiogenesis indicates that living things arose from even simpler non-living things. "
All the stages have their own purposes. Did you read the entire thread?
"So did something really have an intention and assigned a purpose to every living thing and variation, extinct or otherwise? Or did everything we know arise from simply the interaction of the laws of nature as indicated by the massive evidence provided by evolutionary processes?"
Again I'm not saying we will know or we could know. But we can contemplate on it.
"If the later case is true as seems most likely in light of the evidence then you and I and every living thing have no intended purpose and to search for one is pointless."
Yes it does seem that way.
"If there is a purpose to your life then, as I said at the outset it must be assigned by something or someone. Who better to assign you a purpose than yourself? Don't look for one, create your own instead. "
That is not the purpose why I exist. That is the purpose I assign to my life and yes I do give my life a purpose. But that is not the purpose we are discussing because different people assign different purposes to their lifes. What would I be discussing that purpose in a discussion board?
ConsequentAtheist
Registered Senior Member
Who made up that rule?
ConsequentAtheist
Registered Senior Member
Then would it not be preferable to say something like: "If it is true that everything on Earth has a purpose, ...", rather than state it as if it were a fact?
ConsequentAtheist
Registered Senior Member
Yes. Thank you. Since I totally disagree with the assumption, I'll bow out of the discussion.Originally posted by Pammy
Ok I'll rephrase it.
"If everything on Earth has a purpose what do you think is the purpose of our existence?"
Ok done it. Does that make you happy or what?
What do you think is the purpose for your existance?
The purpose of our existence is exactly what we choose as individuals to make it - nothing more and nothing less. The choices we make define our existence.
Of course, there are extenuating circumstances beyond our control which may not allow an individual to follow through with their choices, but those are of a terrestrial nature and have nothing to do with a so-called overall grand scheme.
Theists purpose (correct me if I'm wrong) are to serve their gods in this life so as to find their place in an eternal afterlife. To me, that would preclude the need for an existence.
So, if your choice is to serve your god, then that is your purpose for existence.
The purpose of our existence is exactly what we choose as individuals to make it - nothing more and nothing less. The choices we make define our existence.
Of course, there are extenuating circumstances beyond our control which may not allow an individual to follow through with their choices, but those are of a terrestrial nature and have nothing to do with a so-called overall grand scheme.
Theists purpose (correct me if I'm wrong) are to serve their gods in this life so as to find their place in an eternal afterlife. To me, that would preclude the need for an existence.
So, if your choice is to serve your god, then that is your purpose for existence.
pumpkinsaren'torange
Registered Senior Member
unfortunately, it seems like some people are gettiong awfully hung up on the word "purpose" here. & what's happening now, is you can't see the forest for the trees.