I Pledge Alligence to...GOD?

[sirjpierre]

I think that the words "under god" shoud just be removed instead of just taking the whole plege out. As they changed it many times. and the reason they added it was because they were dealing with communist russa in those times and since the leaders were atheists they realated atheism to communism therefore if someone did not say the words "under god" then they were accused of beign atheists therefore communists. And still many people relate those two even thought atheism didn't have anything to do with communism as communism was about money and power profit more than beliefs. And just as they added those words they can just take them out. I think that they are making it unconstitutional to anger people that are very patriotic and making the atheists the enemy in this instance, making the atheists or any one who wants those words out seem unpatriotic to the public provoking further anger towards atheists.

 

[Silas]

If you think this country is so bad, you should try living in Iran or Iraq or even Western Europe. They haven't progressed beyond the 1930s and 1940s.

Er, pardon me? Precisely what aspects of Western European life are "stuck in the 1930s and 1940s"? The countries that led the abolition of slavery? The countries that gave equal rights including the vote to women, before America? The country that gave equal rights to gays, before America? The countries that never even had a colour bar? The countries that have never explicitly had a separation between church and state, and yet fully exemplify the secular state? As opposed to the one nation with a specific prohibition of religion imposing onto secular law, yet bans evolution teaching, puts "Under God" in the PoA and "In God We Trust" on the money?

The countries that have had national welfare schemes going back to the early part of the last century? The countries with National Health Services?

The countries that care about the effect of industrialisation and globalisation on 21st Century society? The countries that are actually willing to acknowledge that maybe burning all the fossil fuels as fast as possible leaving us with no energy source and a maximally damaged atmosphere in one fell swoop, might be a bad idea? The countries that actually care about the future? The countries that aren't making environmental decisions based on the idea that "Jesus is coming soon"? The countries that impose a sensible cost on petrol in order to encourage fuel efficiency?

The countries that acknowledged the ethical responsibilities of civilised society and abolished the death penalty?

Are these the countries that are "stuck in the 1930s and 1940s", Medicine Woman?

 

[Cris]

Silas,

All good stuff - but the weather here in central California is the best in the world.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Er, pardon me? Precisely what aspects of Western European life are "stuck in the 1930s and 1940s"? The countries that led the abolition of slavery? The countries that gave equal rights including the vote to women, before America? The country that gave equal rights to gays, before America? The countries that never even had a colour bar? The countries that have never explicitly had a separation between church and state, and yet fully exemplify the secular state? As opposed to the one nation with a specific prohibition of religion imposing onto secular law, yet bans evolution teaching, puts "Under God" in the PoA and "In God We Trust" on the money?

The countries that have had national welfare schemes going back to the early part of the last century? The countries with National Health Services?

The countries that care about the effect of industrialisation and globalisation on 21st Century society? The countries that are actually willing to acknowledge that maybe burning all the fossil fuels as fast as possible leaving us with no energy source and a maximally damaged atmosphere in one fell swoop, might be a bad idea? The countries that actually care about the future? The countries that aren't making environmental decisions based on the idea that "Jesus is coming soon"? The countries that impose a sensible cost on petrol in order to encourage fuel efficiency?

The countries that acknowledged the ethical responsibilities of civilised society and abolished the death penalty?

Are these the countries that are "stuck in the 1930s and 1940s", Medicine Woman?

*************
M*W: I apologize for offending you. I shouldn't have opined about "Western Europe." I specifically was talking about Germany. I lived there in the late 70s and early 80s. It is my opinion that the lifestyle in the most modern cities of Germany had not progressed beyond the 30s and 40s. You bring up a lot of very important socioeconomic issues which I did not take into consideration. I based my opinion on the lack of modern applicances and other everyday living conveniences. I shouldn't have generalized, and I'm sorry.

 

[Silas]

Haha! Well, as if I couldn't forgive you, M*W!

Yes, in sheer economic terms Western Europe certainly did lag behind the United States up to the 1970s and 1980s. There has, however, been a certain amount of catching up over the last twenty-five years. Much as I detest having to admit it, a lot of that was down to Margaret Thatcher (Prime Minister 1979-1990). Increased affluence has had a concomitant catastrophic effect on the Earth's resources as you will readily acknowledge (nearly everybody has a car now for example, families owning two or three, as they do in the States).

About the only American convenience I can think of as remaining generally absent is the ice-maker attachment to the freezer. And it's still not usual to buy a new-built house that has all the furniture, fixtures and fittings and appliances ready-installed.