I Need Some Idea's: Pros and Cons Welcomed

[Reiku]

Bending Space in the Brain

My Proposal


‘’If the vacuum can store memory, and the vacuum is warped by gravity, then perhaps gravity warping the vacuum is the mechanism of consciousness?’’
BASED upon these conditions of modern science:

1) The brain is a material system, and we know that matter bends spacetime
2) That not only do the physical statistical averages bend the spacetime, but they also interact with each other through gravitational coupling.
3) We also know that at least 1% of the spatial-material construct of the brain is essentially matter. If consciousness comes from matter, there is a lot more spacetime as well for it to come out of.

If the brain is material, and it bends the spacetime (which is a cornerstone principle anyway), and interact with [possible] information stored in the vacuum, the gravitational coupling between, lets say, a proton and a neutron, could they exchange the information they have essentially:

1) Pulled out of the vacuum through gravitational distortions,
2) Or either received the information through the gravitational influence of a proton, and then transmit the information to the neutron through their gravitational coupling?(a)

(a) – Of course, the processes are much more complicated. The transfer of energy, never mind information, CAN ONLY be transferred by angular momentum, in a time of v<t<r<c. So ‘’spin’’, whatever it really is, is certainly involved in this small set of idea I have thought about.

 

[Reiku]

(There's a third latter postulate

or

3) Pulled out of the vacuum through gravitational distortions in mediation with an observer in real time.

 

[Enmos]

Vacuum stores memory ?? Reference ?

Even IF vacuum stores memory, matter stores memory as well.
I don't think there's a need for a new theory, current understanding seems to work pretty well :shrug:

 

[Reiku]

Sure, i'll give a reference or two.

And yes, matter and vacuum should both store memory. i NEVER said it didn't/

 

[Reiku]

Now who is man enough to admit shoving this in psuedoscience?

I am soon going to give scientific research into these postulates. No time is ever give here to get a fuckin point across.

That should be a new rule i think.

 

[Reiku]

For example. Not only was i going to give references, i was even going to provide math which 'could' help understanding this mechanism...

 

[Reiku]

References:

Pribram Model of Consciousness: A holographic Model of The Brain

''The electromagnetic field resonates from the observer, and information we know and obtain is stored somehow in the vacuum, as Dr. Robert Neil Boyd has been modeling within the last few years.''

Mind of God, Dr Fred Alan Wolf, PDF,

Can be found on his web page. He implicitely stated to me in a conversation:

Me: ''I was reading work by Robert Boyd, (not very well-accepted as
a source i do believe - - but i like some of his musings), was explaining there was evidence to suggest that memory might be stored in vacuum... how do you reflect on this?''

Must be indicating that the vacuum has a potentia of stored memory, and can be proven by quantum mechanics.

Another Reference
R. Penrose, Shadows of the Mind

''he states that there is a strong possibility gravity influences the conscious mind.''

.......... now.............

Dr. Robert Neil Boyd says this phenomenon best. The mind or ‘’self’’ is not located to any particular physicality... i disagree. I do believe matter is consistant as a reference to self, so this must be wrong, however, he does say:

‘’ Eminent neurophysiologist Karl Pribram proved that the memory of the human being is not localized in the brain at all. His experiments proved that the memory is distributed in space, not necessarily contiguous with the physical form, in a holograph-like manner. This means that there exist multitudinous copies of any memory object in the volume of the hologram.

The Pribram model of memory is like a hologram. When you cut a small piece out of a hologram and shine the proper light on it, a complete copy of the original hologram, albeit smaller, is observed. This understanding was completely at odds with the then prevailing views of consciousness, which had the view that memories resided at particular and exclusive locations within the physical brain. Due to this mistaken view, many experimenters subsequently made many attempts to disprove Pribram's results by means of cutting out various parts of the brains of laboratory rats which had been trained to run through mazes, thinking that if they cut out the correct part of the rat's brain, that it would lose its ability to negotiate the maze. Such results would support the old notions of localized memory. Attempts to disprove Pribram’s hypothesis by the method of cutting out and removing various brain segments all failed.

Later, some researchers did things like take the rats’ brains completely out and turn them sideways, upside-down, backwards, and all manner of directions. The rats which were treated in these barbaric manners never lost their ability to negotiate the maze. Later on, out of sheer frustration that Pribram's expressions might be right, one research team went so far as to remove the brain from a rat and put it through a blender. Then they poured the resulting liquidic slurry back into the poor rat's skull. When the rat awoke from the anesthetic, it effortlessly ran the maze, and otherwise went on about its business. These researchers thereby turned about to support the Bohm-Pribram holographic model of memory.

The results of Pribram indicate that the memory of the human being is a hologram-like system, which does not reside in the same volume as the brain. Pribram’s clinically derived results support Bohm’s notion of the universe as a hologram. Then we want to know, where is the medium in which this hologram can reside? Such a medium is described by Gariaev, Poponin, et.al. , in terms of solitons in a system of loosely coupled subquantum particles. What we see now, is the possibility of a hierarchical system of hologram-like solitons which reside in a medium of loosely coupled subquantum particles. This takes us back full circle to expressions regarding the “tattvas” and “bhutatmas” of the Vedic system.

In further support of these holographic notions, we have Andrej Detela’s descriptions of the “biofield”, an energetic description based on instrumentations of the complex electromagnetic structures found in the vicinity of biological forms. Detela says, in part,

“It is assumed that the biofield is a three-dimensional web woven of vibrating electric and magnetic fields. Lines of these fields are like tiny threads in a three-dimensional textile. These electromagnetic fields display very complex internal organization.

We find a peculiar variety of chiral solutions to Maxwell equations, which do not dissipate energy and lead to stable field structures. This is the so-called informational basis of the biofield. The simplest structures of these kind are toroidal knots.

When electric charge with very light mass enters the informational biofield, non-linear phenomena take place. These non-linear phenomena are based upon bifurcations in internal electric currents and upon resonance effects between currents and fields. We find an evolution of the field structure. This evolution is a syntropic process, oriented in time. There are several obvious conditions for syntropic behavior, and one of them is [found to be a quantum coherence in the states of electric charge.’’


Which is almost identical to how i see consciousness... a holodraphic, electromagnetically influenced sub-system.



Fred Alan Wolf: I don't know his work. I am currently working a model
which uses this idea. If you wish to read my paper on this subject you can
download it from my website list of downloadable papers--it is the one with
the mind of God in the title.

...... and .......

Gravity is said by Hawking to unravel quantum effects that may seem, quite bizarre; therego, gravity, may very well have something to do with the pheomena of consciousness, just not so much in the sense of directly relating microtubular and gravitational influences, as proposed by Penrose.

 

[AlphaNumeric]

i was even going to provide math which 'could' help understanding this mechanism...

No, you weren't. You were going to post remedial maths a 10 year old would see through and claim that because you can put the letters E and p into equations you think it's valid.

 

[Enmos]

References:

Pribram Model of Consciousness: A holographic Model of The Brain

''The electromagnetic field resonates from the observer, and information we know and obtain is stored somehow in the vacuum, as Dr. Robert Neil Boyd has been modeling within the last few years.''

Mind of God, Dr Fred Alan Wolf, PDF,

Can be found on his web page. He implicitely stated to me in a conversation:

Me: ''I was reading work by Robert Boyd, (not very well-accepted as
a source i do believe - - but i like some of his musings), was explaining there was evidence to suggest that memory might be stored in vacuum... how do you reflect on this?''

Must be indicating that the vacuum has a potentia of stored memory, and can be proven by quantum mechanics.

Another Reference
R. Penrose, Shadows of the Mind

So they just think it is the case for some obscure reason. They don't know..

''he states that there is a strong possibility gravity influences the conscious mind.''

Sure, in the same way gravity influences a brick.

.......... now.............

Dr. Robert Neil Boyd says this phenomenon best. The mind or ‘’self’’ is not located to any particular physicality... i disagree. I do believe matter is consistant as a reference to self, so this must be wrong, however, he does say:

Huh.. contradictions ? I don't understand, please clarify.

‘’ Eminent neurophysiologist Karl Pribram proved that the memory of the human being is not localized in the brain at all. His experiments proved that the memory is distributed in space, not necessarily contiguous with the physical form, in a holograph-like manner. This means that there exist multitudinous copies of any memory object in the volume of the hologram.

You mean neuropsychologist..

The Pribram model of memory is like a hologram. When you cut a small piece out of a hologram and shine the proper light on it, a complete copy of the original hologram, albeit smaller, is observed. This understanding was completely at odds with the then prevailing views of consciousness, which had the view that memories resided at particular and exclusive locations within the physical brain. Due to this mistaken view, many experimenters subsequently made many attempts to disprove Pribram's results by means of cutting out various parts of the brains of laboratory rats which had been trained to run through mazes, thinking that if they cut out the correct part of the rat's brain, that it would lose its ability to negotiate the maze. Such results would support the old notions of localized memory. Attempts to disprove Pribram’s hypothesis by the method of cutting out and removing various brain segments all failed.

Later, some researchers did things like take the rats’ brains completely out and turn them sideways, upside-down, backwards, and all manner of directions. The rats which were treated in these barbaric manners never lost their ability to negotiate the maze. Later on, out of sheer frustration that Pribram's expressions might be right, one research team went so far as to remove the brain from a rat and put it through a blender. Then they poured the resulting liquidic slurry back into the poor rat's skull. When the rat awoke from the anesthetic, it effortlessly ran the maze, and otherwise went on about its business. These researchers thereby turned about to support the Bohm-Pribram holographic model of memory.

OK.. WTF !?
Never mind..

The results of Pribram indicate that the memory of the human being is a hologram-like system, which does not reside in the same volume as the brain. Pribram’s clinically derived results support Bohm’s notion of the universe as a hologram. Then we want to know, where is the medium in which this hologram can reside? Such a medium is described by Gariaev, Poponin, et.al. , in terms of solitons in a system of loosely coupled subquantum particles. What we see now, is the possibility of a hierarchical system of hologram-like solitons which reside in a medium of loosely coupled subquantum particles. This takes us back full circle to expressions regarding the “tattvas” and “bhutatmas” of the Vedic system.

In further support of these holographic notions, we have Andrej Detela’s descriptions of the “biofield”, an energetic description based on instrumentations of the complex electromagnetic structures found in the vicinity of biological forms. Detela says, in part,

“It is assumed that the biofield is a three-dimensional web woven of vibrating electric and magnetic fields. Lines of these fields are like tiny threads in a three-dimensional textile. These electromagnetic fields display very complex internal organization.

We find a peculiar variety of chiral solutions to Maxwell equations, which do not dissipate energy and lead to stable field structures. This is the so-called informational basis of the biofield. The simplest structures of these kind are toroidal knots.

When electric charge with very light mass enters the informational biofield, non-linear phenomena take place. These non-linear phenomena are based upon bifurcations in internal electric currents and upon resonance effects between currents and fields. We find an evolution of the field structure. This evolution is a syntropic process, oriented in time. There are several obvious conditions for syntropic behavior, and one of them is [found to be a quantum coherence in the states of electric charge.’’


Which is almost identical to how i see consciousness... a holodraphic, electromagnetically influenced sub-system.



Fred Alan Wolf: I don't know his work. I am currently working a model
which uses this idea. If you wish to read my paper on this subject you can
download it from my website list of downloadable papers--it is the one with
the mind of God in the title.

...... and .......

Gravity is said by Hawking to unravel quantum effects that may seem, quite bizarre; therego, gravity, may very well have something to do with the pheomena of consciousness, just not so much in the sense of directly relating microtubular and gravitational influences, as proposed by Penrose.

Blablabla... :crazy:

 

[Reiku]

Why are you being so unkind? Have i said something to you in a bad way?

 

[Enmos]

Why are you being so unkind? Have i said something to you in a bad way?

I'm sorry, it was primarily directed at the article and, I admit, indirectly at you (I didn't bother to read anything after the brain mush incident).

Do you seriously believe that the rats even woke up ? Come on..

 

[invert_nexus]

Depends on what they mean by 'brain'. Rats can survive removal of the neocortex. I forget where I read this though, so can't provide a reference. Nor can I say how their faculties fared after the procedure.
I can't imagine that they were too happy afterwards or too functional.

 

[Enmos]

Later, some researchers did things like take the rats’ brains completely out and turn them sideways, upside-down, backwards, and all manner of directions. The rats which were treated in these barbaric manners never lost their ability to negotiate the maze. Later on, out of sheer frustration that Pribram's expressions might be right, one research team went so far as to remove the brain from a rat and put it through a blender. Then they poured the resulting liquidic slurry back into the poor rat's skull. When the rat awoke from the anesthetic, it effortlessly ran the maze, and otherwise went on about its business. These researchers thereby turned about to support the Bohm-Pribram holographic model of memory.

Reiku,

this is completely laughable. Why should I take anything else this quack says seriously ?

 

[Enmos]

Depends on what they mean by 'brain'. Rats can survive removal of the neocortex. I forget where I read this though, so can't provide a reference. Nor can I say how their faculties fared after the procedure.
I can't imagine that they were too happy afterwards or too functional.

Brain = brain. If they removed only a part of the brain, the article should have stated it.

Besides, they were obviously referring to the whole brain when they were describing how they put in the brain in backwards and sideways.

 

[invert_nexus]

The reason that I wonder if the problem isn't one of confusion over how much of the brain is being removed etc is because of this:

Due to this mistaken view, many experimenters subsequently made many attempts to disprove Pribram's results by means of cutting out various parts of the brains of laboratory rats which had been trained to run through mazes, thinking that if they cut out the correct part of the rat's brain, that it would lose its ability to negotiate the maze.

It's true that later it says that they take the brain completely out, but that's ridiculous. So, I wonder if there isn't a misunderstanding somewhere down the line.

Of course, just the fact that the claim (even if mistaken) is made that brains are completely removed and replaced (in whatever fashion) does pretty much destroy any credibility of the source.

 

[Enmos]

The reason that I wonder if the problem isn't one of confusion over how much of the brain is being removed etc is because of this:



It's true that later it says that they take the brain completely out, but that's ridiculous. So, I wonder if there isn't a misunderstanding somewhere down the line.

Of course, just the fact that the claim (even if mistaken) is made that brains are completely removed and replaced (in whatever fashion) does pretty much destroy any credibility of the source.

Thank you.

 

[Reiku]

Depends on what they mean by 'brain'. Rats can survive removal of the neocortex. I forget where I read this though, so can't provide a reference. Nor can I say how their faculties fared after the procedure.
I can't imagine that they were too happy afterwards or too functional.

Perhaps our past incongruities have been, to say the least, apologetic, from my behalf in total

It seems to me, that the removal of the neocortex would be proportional to the disection of the pre-frontal vortex, and since it is known a rat can still remember how to move through a path in spacetime, then it offers evidence that perhaps some memory of visual cortex analomalies are being offered as some kind of storage:

:: I speculate that this storage is in mediation more strongly with real space, than what it is in real time, for reasons of mathematical and metaphysical ideas.

P.S. You are essentially saying though, to some part, you agree with these proposals?

 

[Reiku]

I'm sorry, it was primarily directed at the article and, I admit, indirectly at you (I didn't bother to read anything after the brain mush incident).

Do you seriously believe that the rats even woke up ? Come on..

Basing this study on mere paragraphs of proposals, isn't scientific, or sane. That's your mistake my friend.

 

[invert_nexus]

P.S. You are essentially saying though, to some part, you agree with these proposals?

No.
What you're writing is gibberish. I'm merely stating the fact that rats have had their neocortex removed and survived. I found this quite astonishing to learn and thought that it would be somewhat pertinent.
However, what you've posted is nonsense.

 

[CptBork]

If Albert Einstein had published a paper in which he claimed to have removed rats' brains, put them through a meat grinder, poured the slurry back in and had the rats regain consciousness, he would have become the laughingstock of the century, all past glories aside. Any team of researchers making a claim like that is immediately discredited.

When you take something and mash its brains up, that something dies. Pouring the slurry back in ain't gonna do crap. I'd write something like that for an issue of MAD Magazine, 'cuz it would make a hilarious joke, but to try and submit a claim like that for scientific publication... truly, WTF doesn't do it justice.